The Realist's Draft Scenario
By Raiderrealist:
Now that the coin flip is over and we know our draft position, it’s time to go over likely scenarios for the upcoming draft.
Imagine, if you will, that you are Lane Kiffin/Al Davis/The-Man-Behind-the-Silver & Black Curtain who decides whom the Raiders will pick on draft day. Decide what the team needs and prioritize them. Add Darren McFadden to the offensive punch or shore up the porous defense with Chris Long/Glenn Dorsey/Sedrick Ellis? Keep the 4th pick or try to trade down for more picks? Keep in mind that some of our needs can be met through free agency.
As for the likely draft day scenario, this is what I see happening:
- MIA: Chris Long/Glenn Dorsey
- STL: Chris Long/Glenn Dorsey/Jake Long
- ATL: Matt Ryan/Darren McFadden
Unfortunately I just don
As for me, I
RD1. DT Sedrick Ellis
RD2. LT Sam Baker
RD4. C Jamey Richard
RD6. SS Caleb Campbell
RD7. Best of what
Why Ellis over LT Jake Long? Tom Cable
The defense, however, was just the opposite in making nearly every running back that faced them look like the second coming of Jim Brown. Hence my pick.
As for wide receiver, I
Note: Thanks to Raiderrealist for sharing this take. This is the second in what promises to be a series of “guest takes,” with the intent of celebrating the different voices and perspectives of the Raider Nation. Stay tuned for PantyRaider's trade take.
Labels: Guest Take, Raiderrealist
posted by Raider Take at 10:03 PM
598 Comments:
Nice analysis. I actually think there is a 50% chance two of the three defensive linemen (Chris Long/Secrick Ellis/Glenn Dorsey) will still be available at #4.
I think St. Louis is taking a hard look at Jake Long, and Atlanta will go with either McFadden or Ryan.
After the latest round of info available on McFadden, I would pass on him. Since Moss, we don't need that potential for trouble. In fact, he might fall out of the top five all together.
One mock draft has us taking Desean Jackson at wide receiver with our #4 pick. I prefer one of the DLs but I would prefer Jackson over McFadden at this point. If he's everything they say he is, then you've got the potential on offense of Russell, Miller, Jackson and Bush, all young, all with great upside. Presents a much brithter future than two years ago on offense.
For me though, it's the defense.
H
Realist- nicely done.
Picking #4 doesn’t quite leave us the same control as picking #1. However, with rookie contracts so far out of control (insert JaMarcus Russell here), reports are that Miami would like to trade out of #1, but nobody is biting (the fish bait).
I’m sure the fish will be happy to pick Chris Long. I’m really surprised that critics argue SOH has limited upside potential. Isn’t it enough that he’s an every down player with a strong work ethic, and virtually a lock to continue his solid career as a pro? Some reporters just aren’t happy until they draw blood, as made evident by our recent discussions on this board.
Your point is well taken that the Raiders will choose from a solid group at #4, and hopefully they will lean to the D with that pick. If they can’t, then trading down should be a strong consideration. We only have 5 picks this year, half what we had last year. As Raider Take aptly points out, our margin for error is “razor thin.”
I think Al will trade up to get SOH... and he will prolly give up "too much" just to drive everyone crazy.
And another thing to drive everyone crazy... trading for Troy Williamson.
lol
That's some pretty good guessing, realist. Wouldn't mind Ellis & Sam Baker one bit.
I hope someone moves ahead of ATL to get McFadden, increasing our chances of getting SOH.
Jake long seems like the real deal but this draft is chaulk full of quality OT's and Sam Baker fits the bill as one of those guys who might fall to Rd2.
Hey Blanda, I saw Jordy Nelson only ran about 4.49 I think. He's still under the radar. Who knows, 4th round maybe? I'm hoping we trade up for a 3rd if he's there.
Psycho
***NEWS***
Kiffin denies rumors!
http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/
buzz/2008/02/27/kiffin-denies-
dancing-avoids-tap-dance-with-al/
Psycho (Gotcha)
Scott Wright wants his first 3 picks back! Just kidding, I agree, the first three picks will all be clean cut guys, I wish Chris Long would fall to us, oh well.
Also, if we resign Kelly, I would take Gholston over Ellis, and I have read the Raiders consider Ellis a top 15 pick, not a top 5.
Good one Psycho. Just my opinion, but it sounds like Kiffin is into tweaking the media.
They play games with him, he plays back. Not necessarily great PR as we know, but he's still there.
Also, if he has been stripped of so much authority, would someone explain why he's in the office everyday working? There's something not logical about the whole situation as reported by the media.
But then, logic never enters into the media's methods.
If Ellis, Dorsey or SOH fall to 4 I say take one. Kiffin knew Ellis at USC and coached him in the Senior Bowl and Russell played with Dorsey so it's not like we don't have some insight into either. Same goes for SOH. I'm sure Mr. Davis has kept up with his career for about 20 years.
H
After the Serior Bowl I'm really big on Ellis as an alternative to SOH. Top notch person and player. Dominant. I agree with Mike Mayock that he is better than Dorsey.
Man, we're on the verge of FA and Kelly isn't re-signed yet. I hope we don't let him slip away like we did with R.Coleman, L.Glover, G.Jackson, etc....etc....
This tells me we must have our sights on SOH. My main "CON" for drafting SOH was that we already have Kelly/Richardson/Clemmons/Burgess at DE.
Psycho
Psycho,
Current thinking on Kelly is the torn ACL has deminished his value on the open market.
The Raiders may be keeping an eye on how the rehab is going before making a decision. ACL has one of the longer recovery periods.
H
A free agent being mentioned today the Raiders should get that I hadn't heard a lot about is SS Gibril Wilson. Sounds like a sound tackler and a good hitter. Might be a great pickup so Huff can move to FS.
I'd also like to see Rod Coleman brought back if he can pass a physical.
No offense, guests posts are great, but I want to hear from RT himself. This is already a community site, I don't think we need to crank out a lot of guest takes.
RT, drop the logic!
H said- "Also, if he has been stripped of so much authority, would someone explain why he's in the office everyday working?"
H, not to be a ball-buster, but how do you know Kiffin is in the office everyday working?
I've not heard this from any reliable sources.
Com'on now, take a realistic look at the situation. Take everything the press has reported, and realize that 95% of it has already been proven false. All that remains is whether or not Kiffin may be headed out the door.
Also note something else about Kiffin's phone call to Ann Killion. One of the things she said in her article that Kiffin was responding to is that what seem like wild claims by the sports media, regarding the Raiders, are usually proven to be correct. Aside from the complete arrogance and utter stupidity of that statement, I wonder if you can see, as I do, that that assertion is what Kiffin was responding to.
"We always get it right," then Kiffin calls and says, "no, I wasn't dancing." No further comment.
Kiffin is having some fun here. He's playing games with the media. He's really acting kind of childish - unless we really do need him to be on his way out. This is not how Kiffin would be behaving if he was on his way out.
If all of this will be exploded simply by what is obvious come the beginning of the OTAs, what is the long term harm or damage to the Raiders? The media has created a story that they simply can't ignore when the story blows up in their face. They will be forced to explain themselves. Davis will have made complete idiots of them.
Why does Kiffin have this apparent contempt for the media? Let me count the ways.
1. Kiffin is so insecure with his age that he's going to release every player older than the is.
2. Kiffin is on his way to Arkansas. "No I'm not." Kiffin is on his way to Arkansas. "No I'm not." Kiffin is on his way to Arkansas. "NO I'M NOT!!!!"
3. Kiffin is on his way to UCLA. "No I'm not." Kiffin is on his way to UCLA. "No I'm not." Kiffin is on his way to UCLA. "NO I'M NOT!!!!"
4. Kiffin is going to fire Ryan and hire his dad. Monte: "I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying in Florida." Kiffin is going to fire Ryan and hire his dad. "I'M NOT GOING ANYWHERE!!!!"
5. Media: "Are you going to fire Ryan?"
Kiffin: "Everything will be evaluated."
Media: "Kiffin fired Ryan who is on his way to a job in NY."
Raiders: "Ryan isn't being fired."
Kiffin: "Ryan is the DC for this team."
Ryan: "I'm not going anywhere."
Media: "When Davis found out that Kiffin fired Ryan, he stripped Kiffin of all authority...."
You get the picture.
I know this is a stretch, but somehow I can picture Al and his kid protege sitting in Al's office having a conversation like... "Ya know kid, I know we've butted heads many times the past year, but lets have some fun with those fuckers in the media... it will be great fun watching them spin around in a hamster cage trying to figure us out!"
NYRaider,
Simple. It's one of the easiest provables there is. All some enterprising member of the media has to do is stake out the parking lot. I'm sure he pretty much would drive the same vehicle every day.
If he's not showing up for work, then report it. The way the media likes to pound on the Raiders, this would be something they could see with their own eyes as opposed to relying on anonymous sources.
Gary,
Rod Coleman is pretty much toast. He was very ineffectual the last two years with Atlanta.
H
nyraider, I believe that Jones and/or McDonald have said several times that Kiffin is always seen going about business at Raiders HQ, but he refuses to talk to the press. He made the call to Killion from Raiders HQ, and the call was put through by a Raiders secretary. Further, he would have had to work with the staff on both the Senior Bowl and the combine. There's really no question that Kiffin's been at work.
Tim Mo, thank you for your vote of confidence!
I will be back on the front page soon, and in the meantime I'm still pretty active here on the comments pages (see previous take).
This will be a week of guest takes. I recently sent the invitation for guest takes, and got more responses that I expected, and I want to honor those responses.
I believe that other viewpoints will keep things lively and fresh. Comments were piling up by the hundreds before I could write my next take during these slower news months. It was getting unwieldy waiting for the pages to download, so I'm very appreciative of guest takes that will help keep things fresher.
I would love to feature a Tim Mo take at some point, just let me know!
Blanda makes a good point that I have alluded to in the past.
Why give the media any more time when they keep repeating stories you have already denied.
Kiffin may, in fact, be on the way out. However, based on the media's track record I just don't believe it.
If the free agency period proves reasonably fruitful we will then have the first OTA before the draft. If Kiffin is running things on the field then we will know.
But, I will guarantee you this. If Kiffin is the coach next season and has a pretty good season (8-8 or better), there will not be a peep from King, Gay, Schefter, et al, about why they were wrong or even and admission they might have been wrong.
H
At some point we'll have to get another Western movie script started.
"The Tales of 19-61 Valley Days." Narrated for Boraxo, of course, by Ronald Reagan.
>>>>
Rod Coleman is pretty much toast. He was very ineffectual the last two years with Atlanta.
>>>>
Hmm, isn't that pretty much what everyone said about Burgess?
His most serious injury was a ruptured quad... not like he doesn't have any knees left or something. I'd give him a chance with an incentive laced contract... just for this:
"Coleman, 30, may be extremely difficult to replace. The eight-year veteran is one of the premier interior pass-rushers in the NFL and leads the league in sacks by a tackle (44½) over the past five seasons. Noted for his quickness and ability to penetrate through the inside gaps, Coleman possesses a rare skills-set."
realist, very nice take, by the way.
The obvious choice says defense first, but last year we said offense first and look where that got us.
I have the funny feeling we're going to trade down. Yes, yes, I know - Al never trades down. Well, that's more a matter of not being in a position to trade down effectively, not an edict. As we only have five choices this year, and some considerable rebuilding to do, I think we may trade down for more picks and rely on the depth of the draft this year, and not the top five. There are some good O-linemen and WRs to be found in the late 1st, and 2nd and 3rd rounds. I suspect that we may trade our #4 overall to around the high twenties in the 1st round, plus a 3rd round pick.
Bama7
I still say McFadden will be one of the top two RB's in the NFL within a year. You can't pass that up if given the opp. Look how damn productive he was at Arkansas with a backyard/HS offense and no passing game. Now he has topped off the production aspect of judging him, with an AWESOME workout at the combine. He's sub 4.4 time with power & moves? You got to be kidding me. There's never been a bigger no brainer.
If we have a chance at him and pass because of re-signing Fargas, you can go ahead and add that to the top three greatest Raider blunders of all time... one slot ahead of Jano in the first and one slot behind Shell/Walsh redux.
As for free agency, I'm still craving PRODUCTIVE, PHYSICAL players. Lance Briggs is as productive and physical as they come and would add nasty to our young atheletic LB corp. I don't know how we'd pass on having our own "ray lewis" come in to lead our defense. We need a physical leader for our D above anything else. Kawika Micthell is also very productive.
Flozell Adams has proven to be an above average nfl LT and we need someone to protect our 60 million dollar man.
Back to the draft, Quenten Groves is a VERY physical football player.
Gary,
Coleman will be 32 this August. Burgess was in his mid 20's when we picked him up.
That description you posted sounds like it was written a couple of years ago.
If I were going to bring in anyone form the Atlanta Parakeets I would take a look at Wayne Gandy. We need help at LT and though he may not be a pro-bowler, he is already familiar with Cable's blocking scheme.
H
Bama,
McFadden could very well be one of the top two in the next few years. He could also be the next Travis Henry or Lawrence Phillips.
He already owes child support to three different women and has had two run ins with the law and he's not even 21 yet.
Just pointing out the other side of the coin.
H
BTW, I'm still predicting that Jerry Jones trades his two first round picks for Miami's top spot. From there they will take McFadden.
McFadden won't be there at four, and it would be dumb of us to try and trade up for one player. And we certainly to want to pay #1 money two years in a row.
I still say we trade down for one or two extra picks, focusing on D-linemen and WRs (perhaps an 0-lineman). The rest we cover in free agency.
H, I think Gandy would be an okay addition. He knows Cable's scheme, and he's an effective blocker in that scheme.
Exactly Blanda. And, if we pick up a starter he would be a decent backup. We need depth also.
The more I see, the more I don't think Fozell Adams would fit the zone blocking scheme.
H
Ok H... as painful it is to me to think that 32 is old, you might be right... he might not have anything left in the tank... just seems that we did ok with Parella when we picked him up at 33.
As far as McF... I read a Raider fans opinion that watched his career in college and he said he gets knocked down too easily to be a stud in the pros. Thats enough to clinch it for me... fast RB's that can't break tackles aren't worthy of top 4 picks... and certainly are far from a "sure thing."
Blanda... I'd be amazed to see Al trade down, but it might happen... especially if SOH is gone.
And the only reason I say this is that after the Russell signing fiasco, Al might want to take a breather from trying to get top picks in camp.
The more I look at this, the only way I see us going wrong is with McF or a speedy WR at 4.
Gary, that sounds like Kauffman. Every time Kauffman got the ball it was either going to be a two yard loss or a touchdown. He was very elusive and fast, but if you breathed hard as he went by you could knock him down. Surely McFadden is more physical than that.
In my highly optimistic, wishful ways of thinking, I want to believe that the Raiders are just screwing with the media and creating a sense that we're the most messed up franchise in sports.
Al Davis is certainly not above that, and I don't put the rest of the staff above that either. Obviously we know that there is a buttload of misinformation being spread by either the Raiders spokespeople or the media, is it impossible to think that it's above them to be the ones spreading the rumors too?
The only question is why they would do this: a) they hate the media, e.g. look at what they said last year about Art Shell:
"Adam Schefter has always been a false rumor monger with respect to the Raiders and anti-Raider based upon his relationship with Denver and Mike Shanahan"
Now obviously this turned out to be "true", but uh who didn't see that one coming?
b) The Raiders are always playing games with the media, opposing teams, fans, etc..again like last year when they made the starting QB decision a secret up until gametime, and even Al Davis chimed in and hinted that the QB against the Lions was going to be Jamarcus.
c) It's in their history to be the rebellious team..it's an identity that's been lost over the years, and may be this is a way to bring them back to those days (this one's a stretch I know).
On top of all that, all the rumors I've heard have been quite unsubstantiated, and rarely have I seen actual legit sources for them--e.g. Kiffin to Arkansas.
And as has been discussed here, the one time Kiffin has talked to the media and said anything more than "no comment", was to deny rumors that he's been dancing.
I'm probably being extremely naive here to think that this is all a huge practical joke the Raiders are playing on the media here, but hey, it's the easiest way to cope through the offseason now.
Being a Raiders fan in the past few years meant only having to suffer 16 weeks out of the year (while enjoying 4 of them--the preseason)--why should I have to suffer for the other 32?
Gary, this isn't a good year to have the #1 pick. This might be the last year we pay rookies without some sort of scale, so whoever signs this year's number one will be stuck with the contract. That's another reason why I think Parcells will bite the bullet and trade down to pick up the Cowboys two first rounders.
And plus, we've been making the right moves this offseason too. Resigning Justin Fargas, bringing back "Joe" who'll be a nice backup to him, franchising Nnamdi, and um..hiring James Lofton. So obviously someone in there is working this offseason to prepare for next year.
Draft...
Sense 2001 we have only had 2 drafts where we address the "O" in the first round...and 2nd round..."04"-n-"07"....I say we need to continue to build our "O" at this point....the high drafting of the "D" has not produced the desired effect...Infact...It may have contributed to our "LoosingWays"...
At this point I believe the best way to help or strugling "D" is to put a superior "O" on the field that takes the preasure off the "D"s weakness at stopping the run...
2007
1. JaMarcus Russell, QB, LSU
2. Zach Miller, TE, Arizona State
2006
1. Michael Huff, S, Texas
2. Thomas Howard, LB, Texas-El Paso
2005
1. Fabian Washington, CB, Nebraska
2. Stanford Routt, CB, Houston
2004
1. Robert Gallery, OT, Iowa
2. Jake Grove, C, Virginia Tech
2003
1a. Nnamdi Asomugha, CB, California
1b. Tyler Brayton, DE, Colorado
2002
1a. Phillip Buchanon, CB, Miami, Fla.
1b. Napoleon Harris, LB, Northwestern
2001
1. Derrick Gibson, S, Florida State
2. Marques Tuiasosopo, QB Washington
PantyRaider..."O"-1st..."D"-2nd!!!!
***NEWS*** (For real this time)
Speak of the devil, we signed T.Kelly to the largest contract ever given to a DT. Check it out:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/
news/story?id=3269154
They say we plan to switch him back to DT in Sapp's spot.
Although I like Kelly a lot, I didn't expect such a huge contract. I'm scratching my head a little bit wondering if this is a mistake. We have a LOT of money tied up in him and Sands, for a LONG time. So much for Dorsey/Ellis I suppose.
Psycho
Tien:
The other big factor here is the free "Pub"...the Raiders don't have to pay a dime for it and they have their names out there everyday...just like last year when we had the #1 pick and took time to sign him...that saved us tremendous $cash$...just take a look at "JRus"s 1st yr of the contract...Cheap...
"MrD" loves the spot light and he will certainly be remembered...They all want him to just go away but without him how do they sell their league...The Dude has "Color"....although many don't like it he is the most popular bastard on the planet...and I personally love to see him pulling a few "Mediot"s strings....And it's "GoodBusiness"....
I want to say it's really great to here that many of you have come back to the "HappyPlace" where I have been waiting...Just put in your "EarPlugs" and really "DarkGlasses" and you will be just fine..."IGNOR da MEDIOTS"...
PantyRaider...Blinders-On!!!!
Psycho... if you look at your list, there is one thing glaringly missing.
Not a single DT, and one DE.
Compare to the Patriots draft...
Three DT's in the first two rounds since 2003.
Al has neglected the D-line... and that is where we need fixing. Al usually attacks the weaknesses in his drafts... I'd be very surprised if we don't get a d-lineman in the first round.
Gah... Kelly is signed? Hmm... SOH all the way now!!
He's trading up for it... I can just feel it! lol
The key part of the article Psycho posted...
"Kelly was going to be a highly coveted defender in free agency because he could play defensive tackle in a 4-3 or defensive end in a 3-4."
Guess they thought his knee is fine... and maybe this means they are looking at a 3-4 with SOH?
Regarding Kelly, Sapp said he had the potential to be better than Sapp. Sapp called him a natural DT. He said he was okay at DE, but would be a pro bowler at DT.
That's one of the reasons I thought it was possible that they'd bring Sapp back for one year as a spot player while helping to coach Kelly and Sands.
This leaves us currently with Warren, Sands and Kelly at DT. Plus I think it possible that the Raiders split time in a 3-4 with Richardson and Kelly as the DEs, but we'd still need to do better than Sands at NT. Perhaps in those situations, Burgess and Clemons slip outside to OLBs while Howard and Morrison man the middle.
Don't forget that the NT in a 3-4 needs to just about be the size of a brick house.
3-4 or 4-3, SOH makes perfect sense now unless we're targeting a Free Agent DE. Destiny indeed.
Psycho
So Kelly is re-signed. Somebody over there must be workin'.
Hainesworth is on the way....See in my NFL "TradePridictions"....
Philadelphia Eagles 2/28 Jevon Kearse (DE) cut.
Indianapolis Colts 2/27 Anthony McFarland (DT) cut.
Do we want any of these players...
Kearse played crappy in Philly, but he was a monster when he came out. Anybody know if Kearse has anything left? Wasn't he the first guy they called "The Freak?"
Team Needs: Oakland Raiders
1. Wide Receiver
Jerry Porter is a free agent, leaving Ronald Curry, who was actually their leading receiver last season, as Oakland's go-to guy. Not good. Mid-season replacement Tim Dwight quickly injured himself and is another free agent who seems unlikely to return. 2007 third-rounder Johnnie Lee Higgins is a work in progress. The Raiders need to acquire not just a number one receiver, but a number two as well.
2. Defensive Tackle
Warren Sapp has said he's retiring. Terdell Sands, after playing well in 2006 and receiving a new contract, couldn't even hold down his starting job. Gerard Warren, brought over in a trade with the Denver Broncos, claimed Sands' starting spot but was his usual inconsistent self. Tyler Brayton is a free agent coming off of his poorest season. And the best of the bunch, Tommy Kelly, is a free agent coming off of an ACL injury.
3. Defensive End
Without solid play from the guys inside, the undersized Derrick Burgess was exposed against the run. Jay Richardson has prototypical base end size, but lacked production. Pass rushing specialist Chris Clemons played well but will likely be lost to free agency.
4. Left Tackle
Barry Sims is 33 and the Raiders have been trying to replace him for years. 2007 third-rounder Mario Henderson struggled mightily and didn't look like the future here.
5. Strong Safety
Michael Huff would be better off at free safety and it finally looks like the Raiders will find a way to play him there. Rashad Baker, who was picked up after being released by the Patriots late last season, isn't ready to be more than a backup.
6. Cornerback
Nnamdi Asomugha is one of the best in the league and the Raiders will keep him from seeing free agency, at least this year. But former first-rounder Fabian Washington regressed in 2007 and lost his starting job to Stanford Routt who himself didn't look up to the task. John Bowie, the infamous fourth-round pick acquired in the Randy Moss trade, is still a ways from challenging for a starting spot.
7. Strong-side Linebacker
Robert Thomas did a decent job when asked to step in and take over for the struggling Sam Williams, but the Raiders would be best off with Thomas as a backup who could fill in at any of the linebacking spots. Williams was re-signed to a one-year deal, but it would seem his role would be limited to playing in the occasional 3-4 alignment or as a nickel pass rusher.
PantyRaider....CopyPoster!!!!
As to the Kiffin incessant "no comments"... I'm trying to apply myself into the situation. It seems the quickest way to get into deep doo doo with Al is to say shit to the media he doesn't want said.
Perhaps Kiffin, as an inexperienced and cocksure coach, the only time he had problems with Al was after meeting with the media... so how does one correct this? Stop saying shit to the media.
It's EXACTLY how I'd handle it myself. If the only time my boss climbed on my ass for something was after doing a particular act, I'd stop doing the particular act.
http://www.mercurynews.com/raidersheadlines
/ci_8394490
Nice artical for a "Change-0-Pace" after reading all the stupid "Crap"...
Bama7
Gary, regarding your Raider friend that says McFadden gets knocked down easily. You have got to be kidding me. Mcfadden finished his SEC career with more yards than Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker and Emmitt Smith. That's not just good, that's legendary. I don't think it is an accurate statement to say he went down easily, pal.
Gary,
Good point on the "no comments". Hopefully that is all there is to it, hence problem solved (I hope). Well if that's what keeps Kiffin in town then I'll be happy to remain in the dark.
Psycho
Off topic, I just saw the Raiders signed Tommy Kelly to a seven-year, $50.5 million contract that has $18.125 million in guarantees. This is the largest contract given to a defensive tackle.
Okay back on topic!
See Tommy leap, see Tommy roar, see Tommy count his $18 million as he stuffs the run with girth, force and menace, making L.T. sandwiches.
That's not a haiku?
It's more Big Sur-style free form poetry.
TOMMY! TommyZilla, in the footsteps of QB Killa, back in black and on the attack. Boom! Little Rivers goes down.
It's a big contract on the surface, but we will have to see how the guaranteed portion is structured.
H
***News*** (Real again)
Isaac Bruce was released. He would be a good guy to have. He's still productive and would do wonders for whatever youngsters we have around next year.
Also Lorenzo Neal & Marlon McCree of SD were released. Not that we need or want them.
Psycho
i,m pretty torn hear when it comes to this raiders draft.
i do think mcfadden will be an excellent nfl running back, but i think the raiders need other positions more then Rb.
on the other hand, we just watched the giants defeat the "greatest team ever", with defense, defense, defense.
but, with rob ryan as Dc, any defensive talent we get will probably be wasted with non aggressive, passive, gameplans.
Raider00,
You are correct. Defense, Defense, Defense. Much like the Ravens of 2000. And, we are still trying to get over that one.
Having said that, SOB may be seeing the writing on the wall. This is his last hurrah. If he doesn't show massive improvement he will be shown the door. I look for a more agressive scheme, with emphasis on stopping the run.
Having the top running back in the league will sell tickets. But, it rarely wins championships. Walter Payton was one of the best ever, but look what finally got him to the Super Bowl - Defense.
H
Blanda- if we were to trade down, I would expect more than a 1st round pick in the high 20's and a 3rd round pick (presumably also high 20's).
On a points system, the #4 pick is worth 1800 pts. That should be worth 1st and 2nd round picks around 9th, 10th or 11th in the draft order, or somewhere between 1720 and 1840 points.
Besides, I'm not sure trading out of the top five into the 20's makes sense for a team that needs immediate contribution from the draft.
The obvious advantage of having the #4 pick is we will get to choose from Long, Long, Ellis, Dorsey and McFadden, all players that should be able to step in Day 1 and contribute.
Plus, our activity in FA should have a tremendous impact on which direction we go in the draft.
So far, by many accounts, we shouldn't lean toward RB (McFadden). And despite signing Kelly, all the remaining players listed above would be golden for us.
ThankYou RT...
"Little Rivers"...
I have started writing another article for the new season....This time about "da-Last-o-da-Moh-Chieftains" -n-
"da-FireFlies"....Last season I picked on the "Donko"s....
"The Evil Empire Strikes Back"...
Now I have a good tribal name for the QB...."Little Rivers"....Great name for the QB of the little flies...now for a name to call the coach who is "lord-o-da-Fleas"....any suggestions....
Also the coach of "da-Last-o-da-Moh-Cheiftains" -n- dair QB...
PantyRaider...OffSeasonFun!!!!
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Gary, regarding your Raider friend that says McFadden gets knocked down easily. You have got to be kidding me. Mcfadden finished his SEC career with more yards than Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker and Emmitt Smith.
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With stud college defensive players suddenly swooping up mega-buck contracts early (unlike the days of the players above) the defenses these RB's are now seeing aren't as fast as they see in the pro's.
Thus comparing yardage statistics may be deceiving. Thats why people that look untouchable in college like Reggie Bush suddenly struggle in the pros.
The speed difference between college and pro defenses are much wider these days than ten years ago.
I admittedly don't watch much college football, but perhaps the reason McF has more yardage than Bo Jackson is he didn't get touched until ten yards down the field?
i don't think we are lucky enough to get soh. but, if we are smiled upon by the BIG RAIDER IN THE SKY, and soh is there, we take him without question.
if not, we take ellis or desean jackson.
i agree baker in rd 2
rd 4, we take jordy nelson if we don't take desean; if we do take desean, then i think we take a dt.
then we go after safety and possibly more wr's.
Trade down for Al Hainseworth..
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Besides, I'm not sure trading out of the top five into the 20's makes sense for a team that needs immediate contribution from the draft.
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Thats a good point. And is this draft stellar enough to attract any traders?
If McF is still on the board... and there is a team willing to part with a motherload to get him... I'd do it.
There's lotsa owners that prolly think the way to build a dynasty is through RB's, even though there hasn't been a team to do it in this millennium.
If you look at this list I see that most of the top "O"s are also "Play-Off-Teams"...and as for the Giants the "D" won the first 3 1/2 quarters but it's the "O" that come threw at the end and won the game....the "D" was slippin away...Giants had the #8 "O"-n-#4 "D"...That my friend is balance...
Total Offense (YPG)
1. Indianapolis Colts 446.0
2. San Diego Chargers 357.3
3. New England Patriots 341.3
4. Pittsburgh Steelers 340.0
5. Dallas Cowboys 336.0
Passing (YPG)
1. Indianapolis Colts 402.0
2. Pittsburgh Steelers 297.0
3. San Diego Chargers 267.0
4. Washington Redskins 244.0
5. New England Patriots 228.3
Rushing (YPG)
1. Dallas Cowboys 154.0
2. Green Bay Packers 131.5
3. Tennessee Titans 119.0
4. New England Patriots 113.0
5. Jacksonville Jaguars 107.5
Total Defense (YPG)
1. Dallas Cowboys 230.0
2. Pittsburgh Steelers 239.0
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 277.0
4. New York Giants 286.2
5. Green Bay Packers 288.5
Passing (YPG)
1. Pittsburgh Steelers 104.0
2. Dallas Cowboys 140.0
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers 177.0
4. Green Bay Packers 207.5
5. Seattle Seahawks 208.5
Rushing (YPG)
1. Tennessee Titans 68.0
2. New York Giants 74.0
3. Washington Redskins 77.0
4. Green Bay Packers 81.0
5. Dallas Cowboys 90.0
PantyRaider..."O" First!!!!!
Earlier today H raised a very interesting & pertinent question:
H: "Why give the media any more time when they keep repeating stories you have already denied."
Under normal circumstances H, I would agree with you. Where I differ is on a few points:
#1 The man in charge hasn't uttered a peep to deny the rumor.
We all know full well if Davis made a brief denial comment that this rumor wouldn't continue to have legs.
#2 The media, like the Raider fans, knows who signs the checks, who hired Kiffin, and who is the ultimate authority.
Therefore this rumor will continue to persist until Davis does right by his HC, players, and fans and squashes this rumor.
#3 This is not a run of the mill, everyday type of rumor. This rumor involves a HC in the NFL and is mentioned on a daily basis by wide cross section of the sports media including local beat writers.
I acknowledge that it is only a rumor until proven true and the vast majority of rumors have been false. Yes it could be a payback FU move by Davis to the media.
In my mind this is damaging, short sighted and completely unnecessary. Lets put this in real terms that we can all relate to in some way.
The Scenario:
Company XYZ is a distributor with 75 employees owned by Mr. Sivad (Davis spelled backwards). XYZ's Operational Manager is Lenny Huffin. Lenny is in charge of all of the operational staff members
including training his entire staff. In addition, Lenny deals with the vendors who do business with XYZ. When Lenny was hired 1 year ago, he moved his family to the city of XYZ. Further, when Lenny was hired by Mr. Sivad, XYZ was struggling mightily. Over the course of the past year, Lenny has worked tirelessly to improve the performance of XYZ. He has also forged many new relationships with members of the community. One of the local newspaper scribes caught wind that company XYZ might be facing layoffs and possibly restructing of the management team.
FAST FORWARD to to my point:
If Lenny's job isn't in jeopardy in the immediate future, doesn't Mr. Sivad have a moral, civic, and business responsibility to publicly support Lenny who deals with the staff, vendors, and community on a daily basis?
I know some will say this scenario is comparing apples to oranges with the Raiders scenario but let's not kid ourselves.
If Kiffin is our HC for 2008 he deserves to be publicly supported by his boss.
Without the public support, the uncertainty and doubts change the way Kiffin is perceived by his staff, the players, the fans, his colleagues, the media, and the community.
The doubt & uncertainty diminishes Kiffin's authority to command the respect and undivided attention of the men he is suppose to lead.
Use your own life to draw your own conclusions on what is "right", proper, and sound judgment.
In my case, I work 55+ hours a week. If there was a rumor going around my office that I was going to be shit canned, I would be livid if my boss didn't unequivocally back me 100%.
If my boss didn't back me 100% and left me twisting in the wind, I would think twice about my motivation to continue to bust my tail each and every work day. I also would be inclinded to start seeing whatever opportunities are available in the job market. This is basic human nature/leadership 101 stuff.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/11364-NFL-Oakland_RaidersWill_Al_Davis
_Provide_a_Second_Chance_to_Jevon_Kearse_-280208
Will Al Davis Provide a Second Chance to Jevon Kearse?
CalicoJack:
Nice try but that does not fit the personality of the owner....he is a Maverick that does not want to be manipulated by the "Mediot"s or anyone else....so in your scenario he has to hold a press conference each and every time some "Mediot"s decides to write "Crap"....I don't think so...
Now I am retired but I spent 30 years in the construction steel trades -n- 7 years trucking and we had constant situations where rumors got started about the companies I worked for but rarely ever came true...when I was young it was an issue for me but later I learned not to listen....the only times something bad happened was when we had no word at all and it just dumped on us....like 2 times that a company was sold and we were let go....
PantyRaider....Can't-Hear-You-Attitude!!!
Questions:
Why do fans think they deserve more than the players and coaches themselves....Not a dime of our money has been invested in any of the teams but we feel so important that we need special treatment..."Tell us what is going to happen"....
The only dime we spend is on ourselves for our costumes and our beer and our tickets....That's our own selfish pursuit....NOT money invested in the team...It's invested in ourselves and in our happiness and enjoyments.....
Does the "Turk" warn the player before he comes in the darkness of night to dash his life-long dreams to pieces...Does he warn a coach before he is cast off and terminated publicly....humiliated and laid a waist for all to see....I think not...But we are so special we deserve better....
Get a grip...We are just "Fan"s which is short for "Fanatics" and don't deserve any special treatment....
Now it just so happens that our team owner is "FanBased" and has established "Raiders Booster Clubs" threw which fan members are given special privileges....like DraftDay celebrations every year....tickets available for the away "HomeCommingGame"...opportunities to meet with current and past players who attend the events....Youth Football Camps....Cycling and running events which support charities....Raider Basketball games with the local high schools...opportunity for club members to attend the cheerleader competitions each year as judges and to serve as security at Raider events...These and other opportunities are offered by the Raiders "ONLY"...no other team is so "FanBased" as our team....And regular visits from team executives like Jim Otto to explain situations that are developing with the team or the NFL...
So do you want special treatment...than dammit...get involved....
PantyRaider....RealityCheck!!!
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If my boss didn't back me 100% and left me twisting in the wind, I would think twice about my motivation to continue to bust my tail each and every work day.
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Are you 31 years old and doing one of 32 possible jobs in the world in your trade?
I think not.
Al's simply demanding Kiffin do the same damn thing that all of you are demanding... win some frigging games.
Once he accomplishes this, I am pretty sure you will get your wish and Al will tell you how much he loves his coach.
Until then, I'm afraid you will just have to suck it up... same as Kiffin does.
This passage from Jerry Mac speaks volumes to what I’ve been saying all along. The players don’t know anymore than we do.
“The Raiders haven’t gone out of their way to clear up the coaching situation to their players, but then again that is not their style. As for any talk that the players are rallying behind Kiffin or anyone else, forget it. They haven’t been together as a team since the end of last season.
Some players who live locally may stop in from time to time, but that’s it. They’re in the dark, like most everybody else, until the Raiders intentions are made clear.”
I believe Lenny (I would have called him Lance) Huffin and his staff deserve better, even if this valuable (dare I say, critical) information is to be kept from the rest of the world.
There’s a buzz around the media that the Raiders way overpaid for Kelly. He’s now the highest paid at his position. Hope he’s not another Turd in the Sands after his big payday.
PR & Gary: You are missing my points entirely.
PR - I didn't say Davis should run to the microphone each time there is a rumor. I'm saying he should do it for this one only due to the unique circumstances and damage it is causing.
Gary: No, I'm not 31 years old (44) and my job is very common (corporate recruiter). What does that have to do with my central points? I was using myself and a hypothetical (XYZ) to try to convey the point about leadership, motivation, human nature, etc.
I'm not asking for Davis to say "he loves" his coach. I totally agree that winning games is how you get true recognition. The entire gist of my previous post is this:
If Kiffin is the HC for 2008, Davis has 2 choices:
(1) Leave him twisting in the wind by not squashing the rumor
or
(2) Say he is our HC for 2008.
Let's not make this complicated folks.
Calico,
A lot to digest there, and some good points. I’ll try to be succinct in my rebuttal.
#1 - Spokes people within the organization have denied the rumors, including Mike Taylor, Rob Ryan and, on occasion, Kiffin himself when dealing with the Arkansas and UCLA rumors. Yet the media persist. Why does it have to be the Big Guy? Plus, how many times in the past has an owner’s public “vote of confidence” in his coach been the kiss of death.
#2 – The rumor persist primarily because the media wants it to persist. There have been denials. I will concede they haven’t been loud pounding the table denials, but they have been issued.
Players have expressed public confidence in Kiffin and, as we know from the past, that has a lot of sway with Davis. What is public and what is internal can be two totally different things. Unfortunately that doesn’t help the average fan since we are not privy to what is internal.
#3 – Correct, it is not a run of the mill rumor, but as I stated before how many times has the vote of confidence been followed within days or weeks with a dismissal?
As to your scenario, and maybe it’s just me and my background speaking, but in dealing with those types of rumors and support, I would be more concerned with my internal support. That has more meaning to me when relating to the people under my direction.
I may have discovered in my one year that I have little tolerance with the public end of the job, and do it only gurglingly. This would then require a shift in those responsibilities to others. That may be what is happening since Rob Ryan has been more available to the media of late along with the statements from Taylor.
In my military background going back to the early 70’s, the public and media perception of what we did and how we did it was 180 degrees out of phase. It didn’t matter what we did, how we did it or how many public denials or explanations were issued. The media continued to support a false public perception with little to no regard for the facts. Nor did they expend much effort to uncover the facts and tended to rely on rumor mongers who had little to no inside knowledge and were passing along third and fourth hand rehashed rumors or outright lies.
So, at this juncture in the off season I feel Kiffin is the head coach and will be next season. And, until I see different I am operating under that assumption. Do I think there are internal differences? Absolutely. There hasn’t been a successful organization in history that hasn’t had any. It’s up to the organization to resolve them internally and move on.
For those players who drop by "from time to time," why don't they knock on the coach's door and ask for themselves. And, if they have, it's possible they are being asked to not comment pubically.
A lot of questions will be answered by the time of the first OTA. If I’m right Kiffin will be running the show. If I’m wrong, well it won’t be the first time for me or any of us.
Well, I tried to be succinct.
H
Quick quote from Sapp on Kelly:
"I've trained that monster, and he's coming (along)," Sapp said of Kelly last season. "There's nothing I can do to stop him. It's going to be his spot, and I'm going to step the hell out of the way gracefully."
I hope he right.
H
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I'm saying he should do it for this one only due to the unique circumstances and damage it is causing.
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The only damage we actually know about is that Raider fans are even more paranoid than normal.
I know of only one Raider fan that is actually canceling his season tickets, and that is because he is in danger of losing his house. I think most Raider fans know this team is close to exploding in the coming years because of the talent (Russell, etc) and don't want to miss it. At least thats how I would be with season tickets.
What other "damage" do you have any proof of?
Calico, you make two big assumptions. One is definitely wrong, the other is a coin toss.
Assumption one is that Davis' statement will have the effect of making it all go away. What planet, exactly, do you live on? Calico, welcome to Earth, where Davis is viewed as a congenital liar. It was pretty much taken by all that the team statement issued under Shell, that Schefter was a rumor monger and no decision had been made to fire Shell, was issued and written by Al Davis. Schefter publicly called him a liar, and said that if Shell wasn't fired it was only to prove Schefter wrong.
Assumption number two is that Kiffin WANTS Davis to step forward and support him. My feeling about the phone call to Ann Killion is that Kiffin is enjoying this.
The only way the Raiders can make this go away other than ignoring it is to have Davis and Kiffin hold a press conference to publicly French kiss. Now - how about that for image to start your weekend with?
H said,
"For those players who drop by 'from time to time,' why don't they knock on the coach's door and ask for themselves. And, if they have, it's possible they are being asked to not comment publicly."
My one concern is that McCown is reportedly going to visit Miami. I think it was JMac who said that he was going to look around until the coaching situation in Oakland was fully determined.
I don't know if McCown told JMac that, or if JMac is assuming it. As for me, I ASSUMED that McCown would look for offers regardless. He still wants to be a starter if anyone will give him that job.
Did McCown check with Kiffin, and now he's looking? Or is McCown just looking because he wants the opportunity to start if the opportunity is out there? Personally, even as a back-up I want McCown to work to be the starter. Kiffin said he wanted that for every player on the team. If McCown didn't care about whether he started and just wanted to be the JaMarcus back-up, would we really want him?
Two issues here. We'll have to wait on the OTAs to find the answer.
Gabril Wilson is interesting.
I just hope we don't give him the biggest contract ever given to a FS.
Psycho
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Gabril Wilson is interesting.
I just hope we don't give him the biggest contract ever given to a FS.
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Why not??? This would be one of the best FA pickups for the Raiders since Romo and Rod Woodson, especially since he's so young.
A good tackler, with speed and a HITTER!!!!
He's been near the top of the team in tackles?
My gawd.. he could turn this franchise around!
Bama7
Vintage Al. Paid a fortune for one of his "finds" that has potential. Kelly is a decent nfl lineman. Not even one of the top ten in the league. Top thirty maybe. Yet another mistake. We are coming apart at the seams. I asked before, can they take back someone's HOF status? At the rate Al is going, they'll put an asterick plaque on his bust in Canton... explaining that he was woeful the last twenty-five years of his career. Can anyone on this board honestly say they think Tommy Kelly was worth that kind of money?
And Gary, it's obvious to me at this point that you know nothing about Mcfadden's career, so don't even comment on it anymore. Who had the toughest defenses in the nation... faster than defenses have been in years? The SEC. The same defenses that destroyed OSU two straight years... and also made a mockery of undefeated run and gun Hawaii. Mcfadden eclipsed Bo & Emmit Smith against tough defenses and without the help of a PASSING GAME.
Oh, BTW, he's a SS. Absolutely perfect for our needs... goodbye Stuey... Huff to FS!!! I can't think of a better signing... hope it happens!!