Time to Cut Ties with Kiffin?
By NY Raider:
It really hurts me to say this, but in light of recent reports that Lane Kiffin has been absentee from the Combine (or a ghost at best), and considering the blitzkrieg of negative media since the season ended, it may be best for the Raiders and Kiffin to part ways.
At the very least, the Raiders have a real problem with public relations, and have allowed negative perception to overwhelm their offseason. As you might guess, I am a firm believer in the old axiom that "perception is reality."
Of course, just because the media write something doesn’t mean I will perceive it to be true. In this case, I have spent the offseason thus far scouring media reports and listening to, and reading, fan (the consumer) reactions, as well as introspecting my own 30+ years experience as a diehard Raiders fan, and gauging my perception accordingly.
At this juncture, from a public relations standpoint, I must believe that the Raiders want people to perceive they are in turmoil. If so, then job well done. Yet, I can’t believe that this would benefit them in any way, particularly now with free agency and the 2008 NFL Draft quickly approaching.
Is Lane Kiffin so mad at the media or Al Davis that he can’t participate with his assistant coaches on the field during Combine workouts, or even walk through public areas of the facility?
While I was willing to believe the optimists after the Senior Bowl who claimed Kiffin didn’t wear Raiders’ gear because of sponsorship obligations, I refuse to believe that it has carried over to the Combine. Why isn’t he showing his colors?
There’s no valid reason to allow this charade to continue. We need a head coach who bleeds Silver and Black, and who believes that to wear any other colors would be like not dressing at all. We need a coach who is on board and available immediately to help make critical decisions for 2008 and beyond.
It’s quite possible that Lane Kiffin is a victim of misrepresented job authority, or that he has simply overstepped the boundaries of his job description.
As Jerry McDonald put it, “Kiffin is viewed as being stuck in an organization where
I grew up admiring Mr. Davis. He is, in large part, the reason I became a Raiders fan. Far be it for me or anyone else to tell Mr. Davis that he can’t perform all those critical functions himself.
Many of us admired Kiffin for calling out the “whole building” after the final game in 2007, and we saw his ambition and believed him capable of returning the Raiders to greatness.
Unfortunately, his ambition wasn’t the greatness of the Raiders’ past, but the greatness that could be the Raiders’ future. That was his undoing.
Note: Thanks to NY Raider for sharing this take. This is the first in what promises to be a series of “guest takes,” with the intent of celebrating the different voices and perspectives of the Raider Nation.
Labels: Guest Take, NY Raider
posted by Raider Take at 12:28 AM
174 Comments:
Excellent commentary NY Raider!
I would really encourage you to start you own blog. It is very easy to start blogging ... drop me a line if you need any help.
(chbraidernation1@sbcglobal.net)
We can always use another voice in the Raider Nation to provide insightful, interesting, and thought provoking commentary.
The current Raider situation is causing some serious angst amongst the fans. What it really boils down to are a few key factors:
#1 Does Kiffin have input into the draft and free agency or not? Has his HC authority been stripped beyond repair? If Kiffin is the HC without this input, it would be the ultimate neutering job performed by Davis.
#2 Is this a game of childish chicken between Kiffin and Davis to see who will blink first? In other words, is Davis making Kiffin's professional life so difficult that he will cry uncle and resign?
#3 Has the relationship between Kiffin and Davis been damaged to the point where it can no longer be a professional and productive environment?
In my view, having a "lame duck" HC is the worst possible scenario.
In simplest terms, Davis needs to either support Kiffin to the fullest in the best interst of the team OR cut bait immediately. To keep a lame duck coach around just makes the situation worse than it needs to be.
The current situation is a classic case of a rudderless franchise. The bad perception of the organization, the bad PR & media relations, the bad marketing of the team all is extremely detrimental to the team's success in 2008 and beyond.
My initial hope when things died down for a few weeks was that the storm had passed and Kiffin was going to be given a true opportunity in 2008 to move the team forward. In the back of my mind, I thought that the 2008 season would be used as a barometer to determine whether or not Kiffin would stay or go prior to 2009.
If Lofton ends up our HC in 2008, I would have a difficult time puting on my smiley, optimistic face.
If all of this is much ado about nothing and Kiffin/Davis are moving forward for 2008, it sure is an odd way of showing it. At the very least, this dysfunctional way of conducting business has had a detrimental effect on fan relations, player relations, the draft, and recruiting free agents. Not good.
How can the head coach not be present at the combine? Is that possible, even for the Raiders?!? I would think if Kiffin wasn't to be seen the press would be quick to fan the flames. Maybe I'm just hoping this is not the case.
We've got the #4 pick. That means McFadden or C. Long or Dorsey Or Ellis or packaged picks in exchange for ours. Up until now it ment excitement for Raider Nation.
Who is going to tutor JaMarcus? Lofton?
All I can say at this point is WTF!
If a NFL franchise was purposely attempting to run itself a ground, it would be hard pressed to match the Raiders for they're recent ineptitude. It's like we've died a thousand deaths and still.... nothing.
In the end all a fan has (when his team suffering) is the off season and the promise of a brighter tomorrow. What do we have now?
M
I'm reading reports that Kiffin was/is there................
Has anyone thought that Kiffin may just not like the media. That he may enjoy being as reclusive as Al Davis.
Some people just want to do their jobs and be left alone, and not speculated about. He's still and extremely young head coach.
Now, on the other side of the coin, if he has copped an attitude and is demanding full controll after a 4-12 season instead of trying to pull together as a team, then he is wrong.
What is the truth. We shall see.
H
Nice take, NY.
I can't bring myself to put forth any effort supporting the Raiders right now. When the Raiders are in limbo, so am I.
Usually this time of year I record all the combine drills and study up on players. This year it does not even matter to me. Hell, if our HC can't even show up then why should I? Maybe Lofton was there so I could be wrong.
If Kiffin is not with us long-term I have to look at Al Davis and the Raiders differently from here on out. This is rediculous.
Psycho
If anyone needs to go it's Al Davis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice take NY! H- Do you truly believe that all is fine in Raiders headquarters? Do you truly believe that this rampant dysfunction is an elaborate media campaign designed to bring us down from within? If indeed Kiff is gone by opening kickoff, are you going to view it as a substandard hiring without acknowledging who made the decision to bring him to the Raiders in the first place? If we still don't know with certainty who's responsible for our putrid record over the last 4 years, do you really expect any sort of truth anytime in the immediate future? What would be the obvious sign that the game has passed the Raiders brass by? These are not rhetorical questions as I respect your knowledge and would love some insight.
Ummmm.....the opinions expressed in your article are exactly what Davis is hoping for. He alone is responsible for this mess and you are falling into the trap as usual. How long are you going to let Davis play you like a puppet?!!
Besides, haven't you heard. Kiff isn't the only head coach not wearing team colors. He isn't the only one not talking either. Please do your research.
Davis is the problem. Kiff wanted to hire a promising defensive coach from TB. Can you imagine the Tampa 2 with the speed we have on defense? We have fast linebackers and fast defensive backs, which that defense is built on. Also, don't forget....2 of the top 3 teams last year in Defense employed the Tampa 2. But NO! Davis believes in man-to-man, so he blocked the move. HE IS THE PROBLEM! Not Kiffin!
FYI Kiffin has been at the combine since friday as confirmed by Jerry Mac, and if anyone actually watched the combine there were plenty of HC's that did not sport team logos just colors, Jerry Mac confirmed that Kiffin was wearing silver and black just not the emblem. Way to feed into the hysteria.I thought i was reading a take from Nancy Gay.
ekgraider
NY Raider you and I go back to the mid 90's. We must resist the outside forces that love to see The Raider Nation in turmoil. I believe the NFL is trying to find something to shift attention away from the NE Cheatrirefs and their trouble. The peasents are at the gate and are ready to burn Raiderstien. Till I see the sky falling it's all Silver and Black to me. -Reb Raider
Nice take NY-
I am with Psycho. My enthusiasmm for the combine and draft is nowhere near where it should be.
I also detect a recurrent theme in what we would like to see/hear and that is something difinitive from Alameda. But we are talking to ourselves.
Kiffin himself could help by a raised profile if it is his team on the coaching end anyway. He seemed to have no loss for words in the negative regarding team performance last year. But not even in the stands as one reports indicates...
SOB certainly has no problem drooling from the mouth with comments, (caveman indeed).
It seems more Davis vs. Kiffin than Davis vs. asst's or scouts or anyone else.
AD was silent during the shell II fiasco so maybe this is no big deal for him. I just think there is smoke here and you know the rest of the saying.....
Good analogy.
While my opinion might not be popular, I'll share it anyways. I think Kiff should stand his ground and force Davis's hand. If that means setting the team back for a few seasons, so be it. Davis does not seem concerned about the future of the Raiders...well maybe concerned, in a weird sort-of belittle your children in order to push them towards greatness sort of way, but concerned enough to realize that he is single handedly setting his franchise back a decade and is ensuring that no respectable coach will work for us until he dies.
So I say fuck it. Kiff should turn this into the soap opera Davis so badly wants, winning be damned. Don't forget we are talking about 3 million dollars here. We all know Davis does not want to fire him and be on the hook for that kind of money. Kiff needs to go George Castanza and keep showing up no matter what is dished out.
However, I think it would make for better TV if both would hold weekly dueling press conferences.
Al Davis has done what I could not previously do, remind me that football is a business and should not be taken so seriously. Instead of stressing and giving myself ulcers, I will happily play fantasy football and remain apathetic until that old bastard dies.
Very good take, NYRaider. I found it well considered.
We seem to have a split between JMac and Jones. Jones has spoken to Ryan directly and seems to have come away with the feeling (at least the last one I read) that it may be much ado about nothing. On the other hand, JMac is conversing with the other coaches around the NFL, and they seem to believe all of the rumors and are split between Davis and Kiffin camps. Kiffin says "no comment" to JMac.
JMac gave the fashion report with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek, I felt.
As for Lofton, we know that Kiffin and Knapp interviewed Lofton, so saying that Kiffin was "unaware" of Lofton's hiring just seems absurd. Kiffin has also denied directly that he was unaware. So there is definitely some gaming to this story.
If Davis is waiting for Kiffin to resign, and Kiffin is waiting for Davis to fire him... I have trouble buying that at all. At this point, if Kiffin is as lame a duck as he's been described, he would only be doing damage to his own career by showing up at the combine completely emasculated. It would be better, at that point, for his own career to quit, saying publicly that there's no point to working under these circustances. He could also make a serious claim to a mediator that he was forced out, and could therefore claim his contract money. If things are as they are described by BSPN, and Kiffin says nothing while continuing to function as HC, then Kiffin is legally accepting those terms.
We are hearing very little coming from the Raiders themselves, but this would not be unheard of. There was a lot of activity over the past two off seasons, but we were changing coaching regimes. If we are not changing coaches this off season, it would would not be unusual to hear almost nothing from the Raiders until the draft, with the exception of periodic free agent signings.
We know that at USC, Kiffin's job was not to deal with the press. We also know that he doesn't seem to appreciate the press scrutiny that he's getting as HC of the Raiders. And we are at the point where, if the Raiders don't squelch some of these stories, reporters will continue to invent (or anonymous sources will continue to invent).
For right now, I'm listening to Ryan, who seems to say that some of the stories have truth, but not the significance placed on them. I don't believe that Kiffin would present himself at the combine with no authority, even if he determined to just avoid the press.
If the story actually leans in the direction that the press is painting, then Davis has seriously shot himself in the foot, and I would be ready to believe two things. One, that Davis needs some serious help in running the team, and two, that Kiffin has no business as the Raiders' HC.
If the story shows itself to be completely without merrit, I will say that Kiffin needs to get a better handle on dealing with the press as an HC in the NFL.
The part of the story that makes the least amount of sense.
Kiffin has been seen at the combine in off hours having a good time. He's been seen interviewing rookies and attending personnel meetings. At the same time, many in the press expect that he'll be gone by the end of April. He doesn't appear to be under any particular stress, and when asked about the stories, he simply says he has no comment.
What's wrong with that picture? Kiffin is a first time HC at any level. He has his whole career ahead of him. If he allows himself to be quietly disappeared, I can't think of anything more damaging to his future career. If he had been stripped of all of his authority, and he expected to be gone before the draft, he would be spending his time lobbying for future employment. He would be spending his time getting out his side of the story to maintain an authoritative image. And if Kiffin were doing either of those things, in the current enviornment, we would absolutely have heard about it.
The reason that this makes no sense is that on the one hand we're told that Kiffin is the type who will march into Davis' office and tell him how to run his team. On the other hand, when Kiffin is completely emasculated by Davis, he will quietly go about the business of maintaining Davis' illusion, for Davis' benefit.
No. That doesn't work for me.
The rumors that the Raiders are shopping Huff.
If so, what are the Raiders looking for in return? It is true that they've invested too much in DBs over the past seven years or so. I could see Washington regaining his starting CB spot, moving Routt to FS, and moving Schweigert over to SS where he's better suited. I think it also probable that drafting a SS or signing a free agent SS might be easier than finding a FS. In exchange for Huff, the Raiders might get a WR, a higher draft pick (packaging Huff with their 2nd round pick to move up to the middle of the 1st round), or acquire a solid D-lineman.
But remember last off season when the Raiders offered their entire defense. They essentially did it as bait, just to see what offers might develope. The same could be true of shopping Huff. Or, perhaps the Raiders want to move up to assure acquiring SOH.
There seems to be some traction to a prediction that I made last week. That Jerry Jones would trade Dallas' two 1st round picks to Miami for the #1 overall in an effort to get McFadden.
Bama7
Great job, NY.
It should be clear to all but a few that we have reached the absolute apex of awful. The dysfunctional operation called the Oakland RAiders has reached a point of being not only embarrassing, but untenable. Just watching all of our decisions of late is further evidence that one man controls everything. I mean really, we make no move to change our defense even though it's obvious the existing situation is not working. Our HC, right or wrong, obviously wanted to go in a new direction and was rebuffed.
How do you turn a floundering franchise around if the "new blood" (Kiffin) is not allowed to try to change anything?
And I don't want anyone to be out of work but why was Williams a priority to re-sign? What was the rush at all on that?
And why did Namdi get the tag he got? I read that with tag we gave him, once A Samuel signs we'll be on the hook for way more money that we needed to be.
And why the rush on Fargas? How popular do y'all think he would have really ben on the open market... considering his entire career?
Bama7, in answer to your questions...
First off, we don't know what Kiffin wanted or didn't want at the end of the season. Ryan said their was discussion about the defense, and there was a dispute about the scheme. We don't have any idea what decisions were made, and we won't until camp. And Kiffin has already made a bunch of changes, and we don't know that further changes have been rebuffed.
Williams wasn't a "priority." He was just easy. He has received praise from both Kiffin and Ryan, but they both seem to view him as a reliable back up player. Low and behold, they signed him for back up money.
Why did Nnamdi get the exclusive tag, as all but one of the NFL's tagged players received? Because lately the non-exclusive tag has been gamed by the system so it has become the fast track way of losing a player. Yes, if Nnamdi signed with someone else under the non-exclusive tag, they'd owe us 2 first round picks. But those 2 first round picks could be top five or #32 (the equivalent of 2 2nd round picks). Nnamdi is the home grown BEST player on the team. It not only is a good idea to keep him for his skill, it's a good idea to keep him for what he brings to team moral. I also believe that Nnamdi was well informed that the tag would be used if negotiations for a long term contract were not complete before hand, and that a long term contract will be in place before camp begins.
As for Fargas, we got him cheap - and easy. He wanted to be here, Kiffin is a big fan, and Fargas didn't attempt to break the bank, asking for reasonable money. I think Fargas' signing is all on Kiffin, not Davis. I believe that Davis would be more likely to let him go and pursue McFadden.
I fully expected the resigning of both Williams and Fargas. I also expected to see the tag placed on Nnamdi from the very end of the season. There's nothing unusual about any of these decisions, nor should they be a surprise to anyone.
Hi Raider Nation, I think Kiffin is doing what he expects his players to be doing in the face of adversity -- shutting up and playing/coaching. He may not be happy about his situation, but he is not belly aching to the media. If Kiffin shows that he is still dedicated to winning as the Raider HC, this will go a long way to mending the fence with AD and will show players that he not only talks the talk, he walks the walk. I'm hoping that this is the path he is taking because it would show the character that the Raider Nation can rally around. If you don't like the way you are being treated, buck up and kick but and show why you deserve respect. If Kif just folds up the tent, then we will know he does not have the intestinal fortitude to be a Raider anyway. Bleeding Silver and Black!
Bama7
Blanda, as usual I disagree with you. No one would have given up two rd 1's for Namdi. No one. So now we pay out the a#@.
No one knows how good any of our players really are because we're a train wreck. End result is, once Samuels signs, a good portion of our entire cap will go to a CB... but you and Al don't seem to get that CB's don't make great defenses anymore. Schemes and the front 7 do. Yet will go into another year trying to relive the Mike Haynes, Lester Hayes, Willie Brown days.
As for Williams, why not look at another LB, even as a back-up?
Note that the Chargers just signed the highly productive Derek Smith. Score yet another for AJ... meanwhile cue sonny & cher tune for us in regards to our scholarship saga... and the beat goes on...
To you Blanda it's just a second stringer (maybe, check DC Al first, cuz he'll probably get every opp to start again) to me it's a big deal becuase Williams doesn't help in any way. Cut bait for crying out loud. Should look at someone else. Like, say Derek Smith. The guy's had over 100 tackles in 5 different seasons. AJ gets it AD doesn't.
Bama7, to listen to you means that every player the Raiders sign to start must be a certifiable hall of famer, and every back up must be a certifiable starter. Otherwise, Al just doesn't get it.
When you come up with some thoughts that are actually realistic, I'll discuss them.
Rick said
Would you go to the combine if you were told you had no more input in the draft or any personell matters? I'd be ashamed to talk to other coaches or GMs if I had been stipped down like that. Nothing will change as long as Al is alive.I won't buy any Raider gear or go to any games till it's over. And who in their right mind would take the job if Al does get rid of him? When Al finally drives him out people will finally quit going to the games. Enough is enough.
Bama7
Blanda, I feel the same way. When you finally understand that we won't win with unproductive players I'll discuss things further with you. You always put a positive spin on every lame thing we do. It gets old.
Much better to put a negative spin on everything we do, right Bama?
BlandaRocked is a freakin idiot and gives Raider fans a bad name. he is an enabler!
Kiffin is a the combine, just avoiding media. Good for him too. He has been seen on the field at the combine during the "trials" of the players. When approached by the media, he quickly offers a "No comment" statement.
What does this mean? Does this mean he and AD are in turmoil? If so, on what basis (because the media says so is not a valid reason, btw)? Does this mean he is on "thin ice"? If so, on what basis (again, because the media says so is not a valid reason)?
No, what this means, is Kiffin isn't there to talk to the media, he's there to evaluate players and do a job. The offer of a "No comment" statement, simply means he doesn't have anything to say to the media, who will more than likely report bits, pieces, and their imagination regardless of what he says (see the reporting of the Arkansas rumors. No matter how many times he denied it, they always linked him back to it).
I do agree with the wishes that he would at least address these "sky is falling" and "turmoil" rumors to put the minds of the fan base at ease.
GeneY63:
Exultant point Bro....
For "CRYING-OUT-LOUD" what the hell is wrong with some of you....is your memory really that short...for a few seasons the complaint was all the "TrashTalkin" that was coming out of the "RaiderCamp" -n- the "Mole" who was leaking it....And now look....da Mole is gone to "MuleHigh" and the the mouths are shut again and all you can do is "Cry-Cry-Cry" and listen to the same "Mediot"s who were shitten down your throats during the "Leakage"....
Listen....Do you hear that....NO...You hear nothing at all and that's just how it should be around the "RaiderCamp"....Not even Portster is talking....there is NoMoss with his mouthiness "Waggin in da Air"....Just peaceful Silence....and until the Silence is broken by the insiders of the "RaiderCamp" I for one am NOT going to listen....
I am NOT going to let a bunch of "CRY"ers and "Mediot"s ruin my hopes and joy as a "RaiderFan"....
NOT a single player has added to the "Crap"....NOT a single Coach....NO-one in the front office....Not a trainer....NOT even the "WaterBoy" is talking....Now that speaks to "Control" -n- "Togetherness"....NOT "DisFunction" -n- "Abandonment"....
PantyRaider....Fan-Til-Death!!!!
BlandaRocked is a class act and a faithful brother and I certainly can't and wont say the same about the "Punk" who take a childish shot at him....
PantyRaider....Proud to stand by my Brothers.....
Blanda..Just wanted to ask why you stopped writing your blog last september?You obviously still have plenty opinions to give,and i for one have missed it even if not everyone will agree(hey Bama7)sometimes you are a voice of reason amongst the crowd.
i too sometimes get accused of being too positive about stuff that happens,but,as we all know,as a RAIDERFAN sometimes thats all we've got .
Kigleigh....
Panty...Well put man,brothers IS what we are supposed to be,too much sniping and bitching for me.
We're all supposed to be in it together,but i don't doubt that Blanda takes the flak with a pinch of salt,huh?
Been there,seen that etc..
Kigleigh..
Kigleigh:
Keeping up a blog is a little more than I have time for. That sounds odd in terms of how much I write on this blog, but it's easier to respond to things being discussed than it is come up with ideas about what to write and then to research them. Generally I'm just better when I can shoot from the hip. That doesn't mean that I won't post on my blog anymore, and I have a couple of ideas, but it will have to be when work slows down sufficiently to focus on it.
As for people who shout names while posting anonymously, I kind of give them a bit less respect than I give to Nancy Gay or Timmy Kawakami. At least those two sign their names to something.
A couple of thoughts on Kiffin/Davis.
Basically the combine has only renewed the discussion from where it left off after the Senior Bowl. Nothing has been added to give any credence to the rumors begun by BSPN. In fact Schefter has back tracked a bit from the story, saying that it has basically just calmed down, and Kiffin's job appears to be safe.
JMac has discussed the issue a good deal and reports that those on the Raiders' staff pretty much say that if there was something significant, it has been very quiet over the last few weeks. He also tells us that many of the staff members of other teams, and members of the media buy into the story, and they divide themselves between pro-Davis and pro-Kiffin camps.
As I see it, there is no portion of the story that measures with elements that we know. In order to believe the stories, you have to believe that Kiffin is a dynamic man among men, who at the very next moment can turn into the king of wimps. You have to believe that all of Davis' screws are coming loose all at once. You have to believe that while trying to rebuild his franchise, he's willing to have a head coach without even giving said HC even enough authority to give direction to his players. Based on things they've written in the past, I'd believe that Gay and Kawakami see the sense in it.
But there has been nothing new to advance the story other than what has been presented as being overheard at the combine. We continue to see Kiffin going about all of the business that an HC goes through in the off season, without disruption. Things seem to be progressing normally while we approach the free agent signing season.
Com'on, ask yourself, with as much "dysfunction" as is being discussed, do you honestly expect that it would be as quiet inside Raiders HQ as it apparently is? In other words, if there is all of this dysfunction on the inside, why is all of the noise on the outside?
Blanda..Thanks for responding to my question,much appreciated mate.
I'll keep your blog on my 'to read' list for a while longer then,:)
In referrance to the other comment,is it really possible to respect someone LESS than Nancy Gay??Well,you learn something every day don't you?
Kigleigh..
I'm not convinced that Kiffin is going about "all of the business" of a typical head coach in the offseason.
This is from Jason Jones at the Sac Bee, reporting from the combine:
"The Lane Kiffin vs. Al Davis situation needs to be completely resolved. Multiple team executives remarked of how Kiffin has no role in free agency. Kiffin is involved interviewing and scouting players for the draft. Regardless, this is no way to run a team."
This isn't random BSPN speculation. It's a local beat writer reporting information he received directly team executives (that's plural, not just one person).
Either these executives (1) are lying to spread malicious rumors to undermine their own employer/organization, which would be dysfunctional or (2) it's true that Kiffin has no role in free agency, which would also be dysfunctional.
anonymous-
RE: Blandarocked
You are the freakin idiot with obviously not too much insight as to what goes on here at Raider Take.
Many of us may disagree with each other but the discussion here is heated and passionate and never at the level of a 10th grader like your last post.
Come back when when you can "enable" intelligent discussion.
>>>>
I'll discuss things further with you. You always put a positive spin on every lame thing we do. It gets old.
>>>>>
LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! Holy belly laugh!!!
Too funny. DAMN YOU BLANDA... WHAT KIND OF FAN WOULD PUT POSITIVE SPIN ON A TEAM THEY ROOT FOR!!!
HILARIOUS!!!! The Al-haters to a tee.
Embarrassing, but hilarious.
Why is anyone surprised that Kiffin is a reclusive from the media as Al is?
They are twins.
And what kind of moron would think that Al wouldn't have ALREADY fired Kiffin's ass the second he was sick of him? What part of his 40 year history tells us he'd keep a coach around that he doesn't want to keep? Or a player? Or a water boy?
Jesus the Al-haters wear me out...
Take, that's partially my point. It's people on the outside who are talking about how things appear on the inside. How can executives for other teams know how much input Kiffin has in free agency discussions? All they know is who's been answering the phone calls, or who has been making them, while at the same time Kiffin is going about the business in front of him at the combine (i.e., interviewing the potential draftees, and conducting team meetings). All the executives at other teams can do is relate whether they are talking to Kiffin directly, and what he says. That is, unless they can report that they have been instructed not to talk to Kiffin because he has no authority - and we specifically haven't heard them say that.
And think about it. As big as this story would be if it were true, can you imagine hearing nothing about it coming from any of the sources. Even Shell, who is widely regarded as Davis' biggest "yes" man, blew up in a press conference during the season on an internally perceived slight.
I will grant you that perceptions carry weight. And for this reason, these issues are eventually going to have to be addressed (either by Kiffin or Davis, but preferably both). But if events are as dire as reported, I have to believe that we would be hearing more from the principals than we have.
One of the things I keep reading lately are statements that Kiffin and Davis are remarkably similar in their approach to things (one of the few bits of information actually reported from the inside). But if any of the current stories are true, I find it truely remarkable that things at Raiders HQ are so quiet.
InsideNoise:
NYRaider....you really know how to "Stir da Pot" Bro....A good take is one that stirs the emotions and brings everyone to the table at once and you certainly did that...Whether we agree or disagree with your comments is not as important as the flurry of emotions that you were able to cause to erupt.....Good Job!!!!
Yesterday Psycho and I and others exchanged a little "Vocal Fisticuffs" on the subject but I was just too proud wearing my band new $4 Russel Jersey from K-Mart to let it bother me....
We all have different things that we use to guide our lives and those are personal things, from which I rarely quote but frequently remember....but just a comment on how I deal with....
InsideNoise....by "AnnoAss"
It was written...."out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"...."You shall know them by their fruits"...."Mark him not even eating or drinking with such a one"...."Separate yourselves from them so as not to share in their plagues"....
In seasons past I waisted my good time "Duking" it out with an offensive stench of gas-terd-ly exhaust vomited up from the depths of darkness deep within the rotting intestinal track connected to one's "AnnoAss"...."Just a Fart"....
Until it became clear to me that it has only one purpose in existence....To Infiltrate and Undermine Raider Loyalties and Devour Raider Love....I also perceived that this "AnnoAss" may very well be existing in several different forms and appearing (Posting) as such.....And it further came to me that this "AnnoAss" may in reality be connected to a "Mediot"s dead and rotting carcass lying waisted in the "Valley-o-Rot"....
But it's amazing the freedom I experience once I identified the source of the stench and kept my distance so as not to become sickened by it's putrid decaying "Crap"....As in....Why would I give myself to reading anything "IT" has to say when I know "It's".....
PantyRaider....CleanAirAct!!!!
Gary makes a very valid point as well. Think back to your Raiders/Davis controversies of old. When is it ever this quiet at Raiders HQ when their is a big controversy? When has Davis ever refused to fire someone that he doesn't want around? If you believe that Kiffin's contract is preventing Davis from firing Kiffin, you've simply never paid attention to anything that Davis does. Callahan's contract didn't prevent Davis from firing Callahan, nor Turner's, nor Shell's. But there's suddenly a roadblock as far as Kiffin is concerned? What's the impediment? Blackmail? It just doesn't make sense.
Update:
Efforts to restructure Fitzgerald's contract have hit a snag, the Arizona Republic reports.
Recommendation:
Fitzgerald is under contract through 2009 for a total of $32 million, a figure that the Cardinals are finding unmanageable because of the salary cap. Arizona wants to give Fitzgerald a longer deal with a lower annual cost. This week, the Cardinals reportedly offered Fitzgerald a deal that would make him the NFL's highest-paid receiver, but he turned it down. Fitzgerald has most of the leverage in this situation. Unfortunately for the Cardinals, that could hurt their chances of signing key free agents.
PantyRaider..TradeBait..#4 Down #16...(+)
Panty, I guess the logical question would be, if Fitzgerald won't restructure, can ANYONE afford him?
BlandaRocked:
I think he wants to push a trade...He may be willing to restructure with a new team...He has been offered a contract to make him the highest paid "WR" in the NFL but declines it saying he wants all that guaranteed cash....
For the Raiders we have room to afford him at his contract...Half of what he makes is from Portster...Half is from trading down from #4 to #16 in draft savings for the next 2 seasons....And also the contract of a player who we would trade to AZ....like Jordan or Walter who is from ASU and a good back-up to the "lefty"....
PantyRaider....TradeTradeTrade!!!!
Quote:
The Broncos are in aggressive discussions to trade for Detroit Lions defensive tackle Shaun Rogers.
If no hitches develop, the trade is expected to be done as early as tonight or early Tuesday.
Come on Raiders.....Get busy....
Blandarocked, & Gary,
why do you consider it negative spin by bama7 for saying we suck ?
and why should it be "valid opinion", when you guys claim everything is ok ?
don't you guys follow the team, and watch the games ?
everything is not ok, and the kiffin situation, to say the least, is very odd.
anyway, great job by Nyraider.
I am a free-agent Raider fan, I just got a cut and I finally bleed red again. Go Raiders, no, Go AFC West. Ryan for head coach, Kiffin can get the kicking tee, or go work for his dad in Tampa Bay. Anyone want some jerseys,
Love,
Incog-Neato!
Kiff is concentrating on the draft. It was clear when hired that Kiff's familiarity with the next few draft classes would be exploited to it's fullest.
It's more important to get the draft right than to sign a FA quickly.
I would rather build the core of my team through the draft, then fill in what you couldn't draft w/ FA.
Obvsiously there can be exceptions to the rule.
First and foremost, I want to thank Raider Take for allowing me to rant on the front page of his blog. It was truly a pleasure. As PantyRaider said, I really stirred da pot.
And, of course, I also want to thank all of you for your responses, agreeable or not.
I just have a bad feeling about what might be happening this off-season in Alameda.
Consider this, for Kiffin to have been so communicative with the media during the season (after practices and games), to now suddenly develop a severe aversion to the media seems odd at best, and certainly larger than a few unflattering or bogus media stories could achieve.
I guess in my rationalization of the unknown, I have come to realize that Al Davis is “the man” (like I didn’t know), and if he can’t get along with our HC, than maybe the Raiders would be better served to promote the “yes" team of Ryan, Martindale et al to our lead coaching staff. At least that way we can be sure everyone is on the same page. Believe me, it’s not my first choice!
Think of it this way, maybe the “yes" team is better than the “do-we-cheat-em-and-how" team in New England... that is, in terms of integrity.
rt said, "The Lane Kiffin vs. Al Davis situation needs to be completely resolved. Multiple team executives remarked of how Kiffin has no role in free agency. Kiffin is involved interviewing and scouting players for the draft. Regardless, this is no way to run a team."
Let's not forget the #1 rule of reporting RUMORS! The first rule of a RUMOR is you DO NOT NAME SOURCES! This is why the "code" exists that you don't name your sources, but as we saw, when it comes to legal matters that could send the journalist to jail, they will always give their sources.
"Multiple team executives" are not names. It is still a rumor. How many times does Kiffin, the coaches, and the Raiders make a statement of, "yes there were disagreements, but nothing major?"
It's all part of the "mystique" and a game that Davis plays every year.
Thanks and kudos to NY Raider for sharing this take. It was an original and cogent viewpoint that really got me thinking. Can't ask for more from a TAKE.
Raider Take...Thinkinoutloud
RaiderNate, those were the words of Jason Jones of the Sac Bee. I took his term "multiple team executives" to mean multiple Raiders executives (I guess he could have meant NFL executives, not just Raiders execs, but that's not how I read it).
I brought it up with regards to the topic of dysfunction, specifically with regard to those who say dysfunction isn't an issue with the organization.
Is it not dysfunctional to have so many rats on the ship, continuing to spread harmful rumors from within (if that's indeed all they are are)?
Would your workplace foster and tolerate this type of behavior? Only if it were dysfunctional and divided.
The only other explanation is that Jason Jones and Jerry MacDonald are literally lying when they are saying they're getting this stuff from people inside the organization.
Even if they're just inaccurate rumors, why are they being so persistently propagated from the inside?
RT:
I don't see that any of this comes from the inside...least not inside the RaiderCamp....It's all from outsider's and why would you of all people ask "Why does it continue"....How many times have you seen the "Mediot"s continue to publish lies when they know it's crap....
Not even Sapp has made a statement...Portster is quiet...but they still have access to the Alameda facility and work-out during the off-season...They would see Kiff-n-SOB-n-MrD....but NOT a word....does that sound like "Dysfunction" to you....
"Dysfunction was when we had NoMoss and Portster and da "Mole" leaking out crap daily....
Rebuilding....
I would go after Quality FA's first and than draft what I could not fill threw that process...and than watch the wire for "CastOff"s that could up-grade the team...
FA RaiderTrader.....GoodBy....Ya won't be missed....
Defectors and Deserters are "KeelHaled" and "Hung From da Yards"....Well...at least you were honest enough to identify yourself....that's more than I see from the other "HateTrippers"....
PantyRaider....Still-a-Believer!!!!
Kudos to NY Raider for "StirrinDaPot...CajunStyle...
nice and spicy!"
I hate to be Captain Obvious but ... when your team's local beat writers (Mac & JJ) who seem to be credible by most reasonable standards are saying in effect that Kiffin (a) might not last past April (b) has been stripped of authority (c) and is a possible "lame duck" HC shouldn't a huge 1000 WATT light bulb go on in Alameda?
The crux of this dilemma is:
If Kiffin is the Raiders HC then:
How about a little PUBLIC support? Would it kill Al to give his HC an endorsement? How about a definitive and declarative statement from Davis? How about putting these rumors to bed once and for all with a joint press conference (Davis/Kiffin)? Isn't that the most basic, constructive, effective line of communication? My gosh, how hard would it be for Kiffin and Davis to hold a brief 5 minute press conference? That would be a golden opportunity to rejack the Raider Nation for 2008!
If Kiffin has been completely neutered and/or is on the way out, how about cutting bait immediately and moving forward?
Can you possible imagine a worst scenario than Kiffin being shown the door in April? Congratulations Mr. James Lofton! You are now the "man in charge". Yikes!
Frankly I'm getting sick and tired of all the excuse being thrown out for the way the Raiders have handled the rumors, bad press, and uncertainty. Name another franchise whose HC is not firmly in charge for 2008. Name another HC whose name gets mentioned in so many BS rumors. Alameda's silence on this matter is deafening. It shows a lack of support. It is a lack of leadership, piss poor media/fan relations, and utter dysfunction.
All any loyal Raider fan wants to know is that we have someone firmly in charge to lead the 53 men in uniform. Hello.
To the "Peaches & Cream" Raider contingent who insist that everything is "a-ok, please take a step back and look at it from a sound logical point of view.
(1) This has harmed our fan relations. Our loyal customer base are questioning whether or not to renew their season tickets due largely to the instability and dysfunction of the organization.
(2) This has harmed our player relations. If you don't think players like Russell would be affected by this situation then you are delusional.
(3) This has harmed our ability to grow our fan base. Besides playing crappy football for the past 5 years, don't you think young fans who are on the fence might pause before dedicating themselves to the Raiders?
(4) This has harmed our media relations. Yeah, just maybe if we made a decent effort to communicate on a more regular basis with beat writers such as Mac/Jones, we could effectively squash negative stories/rumors.
(5) This has harmed our ability to attract top notch coaches for the future. What high profile HC, DC, OC would think about joining this mess?
(6) If Kiffin remains, it gives him an even bigger hill to climb because he either lacks the authority and/or is seen as a "lame duck" coach.
It isn't F'N rocket science. Communicate directly and honestly with your customers and give 100% to improving your product and you would be amazed at how things could turn around in a positive direction.
G'Night gents. Man that felt good!
Well put Calico Jack! I just read through all the posts and am just completely amazed at all these folks that blindly follow the senility that is Al Davis. I respect you guys as fans and I'm all for brotherhood, but to gang up on those of us that actually see the situation for what it is, isn't very brother-like either.
I have to admit. I was a blind supporter up until last year. But this is it. I've had it. The Raiders have called me to renew my season tickets, but I'M NOT INTERESTED! Call me when the old man steps down!
Hey Scorpio (aka Anon 12:11), I thought you were leaving.
Lyin' sack.
---Jeff
RT said, "The only other explanation is that Jason Jones and Jerry MacDonald are literally lying when they are saying they're getting this stuff from people inside the organization.
Even if they're just inaccurate rumors, why are they being so persistently propagated from the inside?"
They are reporters, they can't report, "Nothing coming out of the Raider Nation. Not even a whisper. Nobody knows the in's and out's of who they are looking at, what changes are to be made, nothing." In the words of Jim Rome, "My first job on the radio was reporting traffic in Santa Barbara for $5/hour. Are you kidding? There was never an accident there. My boss kept yelling at me that he hired me to do traffic, not report nothing. So I would always report that there was an accident on whatever street, and that it was in the clearing stages. Then when someone would call me on it, I'd say, 'That's why I said it was in the clearing stages.'
Reporters do report lying because it's interesting, and more interesting than reporting, "Nothing going on over here."
Like NYRaiders' take (which btw, great job NY), a reporter's job is to stir the pot and make it interesting.
Someone asked why he doesn't talk more to the media than he did after every game during the season? Because he is required to do a press conference after a game during the season.
cj, i'm not saying "all is well with the nation". i'm saying that yes there is some dysfunction going on that nobody knows about. but it is not as bad as being reported. and from a third party from inside the raiders (rob ryan), he has even said as much. why not believe them?
listen, i have a rule of thumb. ever since peter gammons reporting rumors that the yankees and cubs were in discussion of trading for sammy sosa back in 2001. he kept insisting that it was going to happen, while both teams ademently denied the rumor, but confirmed they were talking a trade for another player. in the end, yankees picked up a relief pitcher. peter gammons became the biggest idiot in sports reporting.
i tend to take the word of an organization, not the media, who yes, is paid to over exaggerate.
Is the sky falling? NO! But it is raining.
Sorry, just catching up. Too much to read through so I may be repeating some things already said by others. Spent part of the day yesterday flying around Atlanta with the beautiful Mrs. H in an open cockpit biplane. Phenomenal, I highly recommend it wherever you might live.
First off, Kiffin WAS at the combine. He may be keeping a low profile because he doesn’t like the press, and I don’t blame him. Once the first vulture lands or the first hyena reaches the carcass the rest continue to descend and pick away until there’s no meat left on your bones.
We have griped and complained about not letting assistant coaches talk. Ryan has talked twice and we are complaining about that.
Asomugha has been exclusive tagged and we are complaining. Virtually all top free agents were franchised, and virtually all of those were exclusive. Haynesworth being one of the very few exceptions, but I don’t see anyone willing to give up two first round picks for him considering he has missed some games due to injury lately.
It is rumored Kiffin has no input in free agency. The key word is “rumored”. It was also rumored he was going to Arkansas and UCLA, and it was rumored Ryan was going to be fired. It was also rumored he was unaware of the Lofton hire when he and Knapp conducted one of the interviews.
As for free agency and the draft, these should be split responsibilities as far as evaluation goes. Were I the head coach, or owner for that matter, I would recognize that some people have stronger knowledge in certain areas. Kiffin is stronger in the college arena and Knapp/Cable and others are stronger in the pro arena. It makes sense to split responsibilities at first then come together with recommendations and rebuttal (including Kiffin) make decisions and move on from there. It’s actually the way most companies operate.
People are complaining about Fargas being signed. Your best offensive player, signed to a cap friendly contract and all you here from some is how stupid it was, when the head coach they like publicly stated he wanted him back. Williams was signed to basically a league minimum, non guaranteed contract that invokes complaints. Williams was not a priority signing, it was an easy singing so they got it out of the way. Fargas probably could have gotten more money elsewhere, so he showed some loyalty.
Now, some of the people who complain mightily about Al picks that don’t fill a need, want the Raiders to take McFadden, which would be a classic Al pick. Please make up our minds.
Now, Psycho, say it ain’t so. You got to hang around. I need my drinking partner.
As for all the disagreeing going on, as Rob Ryan says, “That’s life in the big city.”
H
Jerry Mac said, "Had a nice chat with Lane Kiffin at the Hyatt Saturday before he decided he wouldn’t speak on the record regarding all things Raider...."
Sure would like to know what they talked about. Sounds like Jerry knows exactly what's on Kiff's mind. Can't he even give us a hint?
Nate (and PantyRaider), I conceded that the rumors might be false (ie: lies), despite being reported by our local beat writers.
What I don't concede is that Jason Jones or Jerry Mac are themselves lying when they say they are getting these rumors from people directly inside the organization. They are reporting what they've been told, not what they've just decided invent out of thin air.
Let's understand the distinction. Reporters may be reporting rumors/lies, but why are people on the inside persistently lying to reporters in the first place, in a manner that undermines the organization?
Which brings me back around to the topic of dysfunction, which some (not necessarily you, I might add) say really isn't an issue with the organization.
It is an issue, as evidenced in the dysfunctional and divisive rumors being propagated from within the organization itself.
>>>>>
raider00 said...
why do you consider it negative spin by bama7 for saying we suck ?
>>>>>
Why?
Because that makes him no different than the "Faiduh sucks" morons that pop up in every Raider forum.
I expect it from the trolls, the Raider fans? Not so much.
Maybe you enjoy reading people that best their hands on the ground every day because their team didn't win enough games to make him happy, and has convinced himself they NEVER WILL... but I don't. To each their own I guess.
>>>>
I have to admit. I was a blind supporter up until last year. But this is it. I've had it. The Raiders have called me to renew my season tickets, but I'M NOT INTERESTED! Call me when the old man steps down!
>>>>>
...and you will be the first to stand in line to buy them back (at a downgrade) if they go 9-7 next year.
Admit it.
..and to the people that think Al likes to keep people around he wants fired. I remember from Snakes biography a story about how a rookie QB threw an errant pass that hit Al in the head on the sidelines and everyone rushed back to his locker after practice to get any stuff they loaned him. They all knew he would be gone by morning!
Al makes kneejerk decisions... he doesn't sit around waiting for people to quit. Unless maybe the Al-haters think Al is just too damn senile to behave the same as he has the past 50 years or something? Who knows?
Bottom line: If Al wants Kiffin gone, he'd already be gone... anything else is just people making shit up again.
The posts I'm reading from Jason Jones and JMac identify "team executives." I don't read that as Raider team executives, I read that as executives from other teams who are going by the press reports (what else can they go on?). If this stuff was coming from Raider team executives, that means the team would be saying something, doesn't it.
Blanda, apparently we haven't been reading the same reports. There have been several recently referring to inside sources, a few examples are below (I don't have time to track them all down):
JMac, Feb 23: "After speaking with a number of people both in and out of the organization over the past few days, the feeling here is Kiffin is no lock to be the Raiders coach when the season begins."
JMac, Jan 31: "That bit of news came Wednesday night from a team source I trust, and pretty much ruins my growing belief that things appeared to be working themselves out between Kiffin and owner Al Davis."
So, back to my point...
Gary, you'd make a great Detroit Lions fan. There would be no limits to your tolerance for losing and mismanagement. You would endure a full decade or more of bad drafts, losing records and coaching carousels. You would view the Millen Man March as nothing but illegitimate griping. You would mock those who got fed up and decided to vocalize their frustrations. Accountability and standards would be immaterial to your worldview.
The problem here is that people have mistaken loyalty for excellence, faith for reality. With all of the enabling and excuses floating around here, you'd think we WERE talking about the Detroit Lions.
Folks, this is THE RAIDERS. This means we not only have standards, we have HIGHER standards. Without these standards, we are just another franchise, the Vikings of the West, the Chargers of the North.
Our unique passion and loyalty as Raiders fans are based on something, and that "something" is the very thing that is being threatened by all of the enabling and excuses that would suggest that this is just another franchise, and that we should lower our expectations accordingly, and that we should ignore the obvious.
>>>
Gary, you'd make a great Detroit Lions fan. There would be no limits to your tolerance for losing and mismanagement.
>>>>
Ja... when was the last time the Lions were in a SB?
If you morons want to reduce yourself to the intelligence of trolls... knockyourselvesthefuckout!!
THE SKY IS FALLING BECAUSE THE PRESS TELLS US THAT AL WANTS TO FIRE KIFFIN!!!! OMFG WE ARE ALL DOOOMED!!!!
Good gawd.
I think I will believe the words of people like Rob Ryan... from a friend that listens to NFL radio:
...quote...
Listening to Rob Ryan on the NFL radio the other day, he was talking
about all of the disinformation being published, including the report that "he (Ryan) had been fired" at the end of the season.
Caveman reiterated that Kiffin was still head coach, and thought that
Mr. Davis was "having a little fun" with the media.
Al is working the press into a frenzy, and having a good time doing it.
....end quote....
Keep feeding at the trough of shit the media is feeding you RT. Just don't kiss me with those lips after next season when all things Raider have returned to normal.
Touched a nerve, did I?
This has nothing to do with the media and everything to do with the dysfunction that has led to the worst five-year streak in the past 30 years of the NFL. Can't blame the media for that.
When the Raiders return to playing competitive football, I will congratulate myself for being a part of the solution, for having standards and exercising my voice, and for not excusing the inexcusible or ignoring the obvious.
Tough love is tough. You ought to try it.
As for the team screwing around with the media (and, by extension, the fans) and taking joy in fostering negativity and confusion, that's certainly their prerogative. If that's how they get their rocks off, then they should certainly knock themselves out.
However, if at a later date, say when the Coliseum lease expires, the team starts crying about revenue problems, it will be hard to be sympathetic.
Here's the people the Al-haters are hanging their hats on:
"Peter King estimated on HBO's Inside the NFL Thursday that there's a 75% chance Lane Kiffin will be out of a job in the next couple of weeks."
Date: 2-01-08
FLASH FORWARD:
"Lane Kiffin may have been here representing the Raiders as their head coach, but I say it's no better than 50-50 that he'll coach Oakland this fall. Trust me on this one, Raider Nation. I'm not trying to stoke the fires or keep beating a dead horse."
-Peter King, 2-24-08
HILARIOUS!!!
>>>>>
However, if at a later date, say when the Coliseum lease expires, the team starts crying about revenue problems, it will be hard to be sympathetic.
>>>>
As long as the team wins, nothing else matters RT. You've even said it yourself.
Make up your mind.
The stands will be full with a winning team and you know it.
"...and you will be the first to stand in line to buy them back (at a downgrade) if they go 9-7 next year.
Admit it."
LMAO! Gary.....9-7 next year?? At a downgrade? LOL! Man, that's wishful thinking, isn't it? You must be confusing the Raiders for a team that actually believes in cohesion and continuity. A team that respects it's fans.
Here are the facts:
We have a coach that is, in effect, a lame duck this year. And while rumors are flying around about the coach's status, the owner does nothing to dispel these rumors.
Not that "lame duck" has any meaning in Raider land. After all, the decisions (personnel, coaching and otherwise) will always be made by one man. Remember Mike White? 1995? They had an 8-2 record, then it was rumored that the players realized White was just a Davis puppet (which he was) and lost respect for him. The result? They choked off 6 straight losses to end the season.
We have an owner that still believes good DB play and man defense will result in a stellar DEF. You saw the error in that thinking last year, as we allowed second string RB's to look like hall of famers. Also, if your DB's are anything less than star material, they are exposed. Only Namdi is star material back there.
Good point RT. It is a sad day when our fellow Raider fans have succomed to our state of affairs.
The stands would be fuller with a losing team if the customer outreach was better, and if the team wasn't allegedly taking so much glee in fostering negative media coverage.
A good business plan is not about waiting for winning, it's about maximizing potential revenues regardless of winning or losing. Sure, winning helps, but that doesn't absolve the responsibility of good business in the absence of winning.