Tuesday, July 27, 2010

Remembering The Legend

Here at Raider Take, we coined the phrase "WWTD," for "What Would Tatum Do?"

It's a question that we've had to ask with regretful frequency in recent years, having been subjected to watching guys like Stuart Schweigert do their best Cirque du Soleil impersonations.


You know, clowns flying around, hitting nothing.

We know what Tatum would have done. He would have hit something. He never played the clown.

And today, alas, we must say goodbye to the man and the legend. Jack Tatum has passed away at the young age of 61.

It's odd to think of him being just 61 in 2010. Part of it is because in the 1970s, seemingly every football player, and especially the Raiders, looked hard and grizzled and manly in the "mountain man" sense of the word (at least in the eyes of us kids).

It's been 34 years since Tatum's epic helmet-separating hit in the Super Bowl in Pasadena, and 38 years since his hit that created the Immaculate Deception. He was in his 20s then, but he and his teammates looked like they'd already been pillaging the earth for decades.

At the beginning of Raiders games at the Coliseum, they always play these video vignettes of current players giving lip service to it being "our house," or something like that. Yes, it's our house, half empty, with clowns flying around, giving up 275 yards rushing.

I propose a change. No more current players in the vignettes. Only Raiders legends. All asking the same question: WWTD?

215 Comments:

Blogger H said...

Amen.

H

2:35 PM  
Blogger H said...

One of my favorites is when Tatum hit Earl Campbell so hard it knocked him four yards backwards before he fell down.

H

2:57 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Jack Tatum was a true original.

Jack Tatum set the standard at his position.

Jack Tatum should be in the Hall of Fame.

He will be greatly missed by the Nation.

Thanks for all the great memories Jack.

3:04 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Cut and paste this into your browser for the highlights, including the Campbell hit:

http://bit.ly/2Nscby

Amazingly, Campell still managed to stumble forward into the end zone before blacking out.

(Note to McFadden: WWCD?)

3:05 PM  
Blogger RaiderCat said...

(Note to McFadden: WWCD?) ~R.T.

I know, right? But Campbell's legs were as thick as my waist, while DMac's are like my arms, lol!

R.I.P., Assassin. You were the epitome of the once vaunted Raider D...

~'Cat

3:28 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

While you can't have one without at least some of the other, I've always preferred a killer-instinct defense over a high-scoring offense.

Tatum truly made that happen.

I had the pleasure of meeting the man just a few years ago. He had a quiet exterior. But even in his later years, you could almost feel the killer instinct in him.

R.I.P.

5:44 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

RIP, Lord Tatum.

Tatum was a BIG childhood hero of mine. I had the good fortune of meeting him and getting his autograph at a S&B fundraiser for FB Steve Smith ... grey dreadlocks and a menacing stare. I will always cherish the memories that Tatum and the Soul Patrol provided in the early 70's.

6:28 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Jack Tatum, R.I.P.

Huge part of the defense that helped create the greatest years of the Raiders. Forever feared, he was the master of intimidation. He was made to play football, a GREAT Raider.

JONES

7:44 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Jack Tatum is one Raider I never had the pleasure to meet...

I'm surprised he was only 61...Back in those days it seemed like all the players were older than me by more than just one year...Turns out it was 2 yrs...11-18-48...Just a few months shy of 62...Still way too young by today's standards but he lives on eternally as long as the fans never forget and pass the reality of his presence onto all those who follow behind...

When you have had a player like the "Assassin" on the team it may become difficult to see that lesser players who follow also have talented qualities but if they didn't they never would have made it so far...To compare every player of a lesser value to the greatness of this man while expecting the same results is a little shallow...Don't you think...

We have had other hard hitters on the team as well threw time but not everyone was of that type...Eddie Anderson was in that mold...Ronnie Lott was without a doubt...Rod Woodson was another...

Our current roster has several young and upcoming "DB"s who are feeling their way and perhaps on the verge of greatness...That time will tell...But their play has more involved than just hitting someone...It's also a matter of the supporting cast and the designed scheme that they play within...

Only now do they appear to have a suitable core of "LB"s able to care for their own responsibilities of controlling the space between them and the "DL"...And only now do they appear to have an adequate "DL" to get the necessary pressure on the "QB"-n-"RB"s to make their jobs easier instead of being alone on an island without support...

When we get to a point that our "DB"s can consistently rely upon the front 7 to do their jobs we may see tremendous results from this squad...Until than they have double the responsibilities and have to check-down on too many options...That occupies time -n- attention away from their intended duties...Handicapped -n- slowed so to speak...

One thing of note regarding Jack Tatum...He played with a Superior supporting cast and helped make everyone around him just that much better...Everyone could depend upon him and he could depend upon those around him...

Also of note...He played half his career with the 4-3 in front of him and the second half with the 3-4...

Hopefully a young player like "MM" is on the verge of that type of greatness...1st he needs to earn time on the field...

PantyRaider...Jack Tatum Set The Standard very High!!!/_

9:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Also of note...

As long as a "DB" is our leading tackler don't expect to see our "D" backfield ranked in the top of the NFL...Those tackles equate to hits and expend tremendous energy...That's energy that's subtracted from pass coverage duties and that's attention that's drawn away from the intended task and puts that "DB" out of position to make other necessary plays...Now he has to expend even more energy trying to make up space...

This is not an attempt to make any excuses for a player's failure to make a tackle...It's just the reality of the sport and one that needs to be realized prior to slamming our "DB"s for the team's inadequacies...It's a "Team Effort" and that encompasses every single player on every single play on every single unit..."O"-"D"-"ST"...One failure translates to another failure as well...

PantyRaider...Balance -n- Duty!!!/_

9:28 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...

I saw you left me this sweet little tid-bit...What a freakin joke...Now do you honestly believe in your wildest ass "HateTrip" dreams that winning was ever out of Al Davis' mind...That it was not the focus of all his desires...Damn...I mean even the crap you posted about was how he desired to win against little Lance -n- the NFL...get freakin real...

Winning is everything in the eyes of the "GodFather" and it's totally absurd that you or anyone else would think otherwise...

So now take this crap and swallow hard...

One "DeadHorse" "RodeApple" coming back at'cha...
---------------------------------
I just don't hide behind a pretense that they were diligently preparing to win during their horrendous stretch of futility, deceit and piracy of a once proud and legendary team turned laughing stock of the NFL... like you do.
---------------------------------

"Piracy"...Of what...His own freakin team..."Deceit" of who...You...Damn...Your head is screwed on totally backwards...

PantyRaider...Aye!...Shit In Your Eye!!!!/_

9:50 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Panty....get some help.

JONES

10:02 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Former linebacker Greg Biekert joined the Raiders coaching staff several weeks ago as an assistant coach on defense.

“It is great to be back and to wear the Silver and Black again,” said Biekert. “Being a Raider is something that my family and I have always been proud of and love. Now I have the opportunity once again to contribute to the greatness of the Raiders.”

Jason Campbell regarding training camp...

Campbell says, “It’s just exciting, it’s like you got drafted all over again. The main thing I want to do is work as hard as I can every day, push my team to get better, push myself to get better and take everything one day at a time.”

“My goal is to improve from where we left off in OTAs and mini-camps. I thought the young receivers did a really good job in OTAs, there’s definitely a lot of talent there,”...“I just want to continue to build chemistry with them. We’re all after one common goal, my only goal this year is for us to win.”

“When I put that Silver and Black on, it’s almost like a kid. Growing up and watching the Raiders play, and I’ve had some friends come through, everyone likes that Silver and Black. I’m excited to see what it looks like. When we’ve played the Raiders, we talk about how good their colors are. I think everyone is on the same page, and will have a new attitude and play with a sense of pride…and play together.”



Yup!!!...Just as I noted...Nothing in the world is as important as winning in this franchise...But hay don't believe me...Just listen to the players -n- coaches...

PantyRaider...Time To Feel The Emotion NOT Cry!!!!/_

10:07 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yes, Tatum had a good supporting cast.

But when he took the correct angle and blasted someone in the open field, what did the supporting cast have to do with it?

Conversely, there's a reason why a guy like Schweigert, who started the majority of our games for three years, didn't start a single game after leaving Oakland. Couldn't he have excelled with a good supporting cast? No. He couldn't tackle and he took bad angles.

We go full seasons without seeing the type of hits that were common from Tatum. Where's the physicality? The intimidation? The tackling fundamentals?

Hey, Mike Mitchell--it's time to justify your pick and lead the way. WWTD?

10:14 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

“Now is the time,” Seymour said. “Camp is the foundation to the season. During the season, you spend so much time game planning and focusing in on your opponents; you really don’t have the time to work on individual things. This is my time that I really get into me and focus on the things that I need to do to make myself a better player.”

“I love stopping the run,” Henderson said. “That is my thing and has been my thing since the University of Tennessee. I like sacking the quarterback too but I always like stopping the run.”

“This year we look very promising to the fans and everybody,” Chris Johnson added. “We just have to get out there and to put it all together and grind and get it done.”



WoW!...How any fan can be around this and not catch the fever is beyond me...

"Doom-n-Gloom" in the "Valley of Sunken Hearts"....

PantyRaider....GOOOOoooooo RAIDERsssss!!!!/_

10:25 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

I'm not going to try to defend any one player that you have a "HateTrip" with...

Take a look at the unit as a unit because that's how they play the sport...On that play where that "DB" took a poor angle as you noted what happened prior to him seeing his target...What transpired as the play developed...What was the cause of him being out of position to make the play...

Conversely when a "DB" is on target but fails to make a tackle due to poor technique than that's on him...He should have made that play...But where was his back-up support on that play...

If Tatum as "FS" was allowed to roam the field in "Search-n-Destroy" mode it was because others were doing their jobs too...He could focus upon his primary responsibility and be in the proper position and attack the ball...

Contributions:

"QB" was hurried and released the ball off time...

"WR"s were covered well by the "CB"s...

"SS" was tightly on the "TE"...


"RB"s were slowed at the point of attack by the "DL"-n-"LB"s or forced wide giving the "FS" a better shot at him...

"RB"s were covered well by a "LB" and slowed by a hit if a reception was made...

The "FS" was a superior player and made a great play on the ball...

All possibilities when the entire team is doing their respective jobs that contributed to the individual success of each player on the field...

PantyRaider...The Basic Fundamentals Of "D"!!!!/_

11:00 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Panty Raider -

It’s truly a shame that you have to spoil the sanctity of a tribute to the great Jack Tatum by spewing your childish “doom-n-gloom” drivel from the previous thread here on this one.

Show some class.

4:42 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

I like George Atkinson, “Number 6? I don’t even wanna know who you got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5”

I saw that on NFL Network. Number 1 was Dick Butkus.

NYRaider,

“I've always preferred a killer-instinct defense over a high-scoring offense.” I’m with you there. I’ve always said the fastest way “back” to the playoffs is through defense. They give the offense more opportunities on short fields and puts the opposition defense in a hole. Having said that I don’t think the offense from last year’s first 9 games could have taken advantage.

Greg Biekert has been signed as a coach to work with Rolando McClain. Good move.

H

4:43 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...

Stick that crap up your own damn ass where it came from...Your constant classless attacks on Mr Davis are a matter of record here...

The tribute to Tatum is one thing but having it used as a way to smite our current roster is quite another...

Now onto to other business...

This speaks of the "Hybrid" possibilities and versatility of some of the current players on our roster...



While Scott was mostly a first-team weak side linebacker in sessions open to the media along with McClain and strong side starter Kamerion Wimbley, he saw enough time on the edge to think his role could be that of a hybrid.

“Right now I’m under the impression that I’m going to be doing a little bit of both this year,’’ Scott said. “We’ll see what happens . . . as long as I’m on the field, that’s all I want to do. If that’s playing linebacker so be it. If it means playing D-end, I mean, as long as I’m playing, that’s all I care about.’’



Good attitude too so now that's an example of class...Unlike players of the past who were disruptions in the locker-room...Not to mention fans who continue to be disruptions of joy/hope in the Nation...

PantyRaider....I'm Not The Cancer Here!!!/_

But I don't mind pointing it out...

5:24 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Tatum was a product of his time and that's difficult to translate into today's game as noted by a few current players on our roster...Ronnie Lott would prolley support that view...



– “He was all about big hits. Wouldn’t nobody come across the middle. That’s what we’ve got to bring to the secondary. We’ve got to bring that back. We can’t do it exactly like he did because we’d get fined now, but we still have that mentality as he had just be under the rules,’’ _ Johnson on Tatum’s playing style.

– “You try to but you can’t duplicate some of the things he did on the field. The way he hit people, he was a pure intimidator out there,’’ Raiders safety Tyvon Branch.



The NFL legislates against the things the Raiders did well...Those are the "Raider Rules"...Than they enforce those rules tougher against us than against most other teams...That's why it hasn't been a level playing field for more than a decade or two...While at the same time they turn a blind eye to the same crap when it's done against us...Now that's just the reality of life as a Raider...

Myself I would truly love to see that intimidation return....That's what I grew up with...It was perpetually burned into my scull as a young Raider back in the "60"s...But reality is reality and I'm the 1st to bitch about how the NFL has been turned into a sissy league of criers -n- pansies...

Hell...My favorite physical game was one we lost...The "84" bears...But we destroyed their hopes in that loss after they went after Wilson -n- Hum...
---------------------------------
the biggest challenge for the young Bears-a showdown with the world champion Los Angeles Raiders. Looking back, many point to this game as the Bear's pivotal win in their road to the super bowl under Mike Ditka. The Bears did indeed beat the Raiders 17-6, a game that showcased the NFL's leading sacker, Richard Dent, who collected three against Raiders QB Marc Wilson. This game wasn't all full of magic, however, as Jim McMahon was sanwiched on an ill-advised scramble, and the QB suffered a lacerated kidney, sending him to the sidelines for the remainder of the campaign. The team would now have to look to a new signal-caller to guide them to the promised land.

http://www.bearshistory.com/seasons/1984chicagobears.aspx
----------------------------------
Non of that would have been legal in today's game...Helmet to helmet defenders with McMahon in between..."Body-Bags" on the field as Bears fell like flies...What a beautiful sight...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6C0aRvy-Ls

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIyjYz51_A

The possibilities of anything along that lines returning to the Raiders' "D" are nil...Our "D" under Willie Shaw during Gruden is about as close as we could come...And if you remember we were constantly flagged for every little thing back than and Gruden was complaining publicly and filing his weekly complaints with the NFL...The "Snow Job" is a perfect example of how our "D" has been treated...

PantyRaider...Complex Issues Endure!!!!/_

7:09 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

I need to correct a post I made without looking at the stats 1st...We had very good "D"s in the past and "DB"s led the team in tackles...Not "LB"s as I suspected...Also I said "DB"s led us in Tkls during the past few poor seasons....Also NOT True...

Leading tacklers yr by yr...No stats were kept during Tatum's time...

"85"-"87" the top stats belong to the "DL"...in "87" a "CB" tied for 3rd...

"88" was again the "DL"...

"89" "DB"s led the stats...
"FS" Eddie Anderson had 88...
"CB" Terry McDaniel 68
"CB" Lionel Washington 67

"90" "FS" again led all players...
"FS" Eddie Anderson had 92
3 "DL" 124...
"CB" 62...

"91" "FS" again led all players...
"FS" Eddie Anderson had 118...
"SS" Ronnie Lott 93...
"CB" Terry McDaniel 77...
"CB" Lionel Washington 72...

"92" "SS" led all players...
"SS" Ronnie Lott 103...
"FS" Eddie Anderson 85...
"LB" Aaron Wallace 73...
"CB"s each had 63...

"93" "LB"s led all players...
"LB" Winston Moss 102...
"LB" Joe Kelly 97...
"SS" Derrick Hoskins 88...
"DT" Chester McGlockton 78...
"FS" Eddie Anderson 77...

"94" "LB"s led top 3/4...

"95" "LB"s led the top 3...

"96" "LB"s led the top 2...

"97" "S"s led the top 2...

"98" "LB"s led the top 2...

"99" "LB" led the top....
3 "DB"s tied for 2nd -w- half the Tkls....

"00" "LB"s led the top 2...

"01" "LB"s led the top 2...

"02" "LB"s led top 3/4....

"03" "LB"s led the top 2 and here is were we fell off the board as a good "D"....

"04" "LB" led -w- 4 "DB"s topping out...

"05" "LB"s top 2...

"06" "LB" top 2 and good "D" stats....

"07" "LB"s top 2...

"08" "LB"s top 2/3...

"09" "LB" top 2/3...

So this is one time the stats don't establish anything...At least not as far as whether the "D" was better being led in Tkls by a "DB" or "LB" or "DL"...

PantyRaider...Standing Self Corrected!!!/_

9:01 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

That was my 9:28 PM post that I corrected...

9:09 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PR said: "Stick that crap up your own damn ass where it came from...Your constant classless attacks on Mr Davis are a matter of record here..."

Find the so-called “record” and show me!

I am a fan of Al Davis. Always have been. Always will be. I just don't agree (nor appreciate) the way the team has been operated in recent years... I'm not alone.

You, on the other hand, are a blind idiot and the #1 perpetrator of mudslinging insults and innuendo on this board. Jones has nothing on you!

PR also said: “The tribute to Tatum is one thing but having it used as a way to smite our current roster is quite another...”

WTF are you talking about, “smite our current roster?” I have two posts on this thread (3 including this one) and nowhere do I even mention our current roster.

Do you think when you type, or do you just type?

10:30 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H - In order to be successful, you can't have one without at least a little of the other. Recent teams have been dreadful on both sides of the ball.

This year's squad looks to have the most improvement on defense, and that's something I can get excited about... in keeping with the WWTD theme.

10:35 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

Agreed, that’s why I mentioned the offense in games 1-9 last season. But, going into the Super Bowl I’d rather have the meaner, nastier defense than the better offense.

A couple of weeks ago I went back and watched the SEC Championship Game and the BCS Championship game and all I did was watch McClain in the SEC, and McClain and Houston in the BCS.

If Marshall uses them to their optimum we are going to be very happy come week 4 or 5 when they have acclimated to the NFL. Also, bringing in Biekert to work with McClain is a great move. He was the last MLB we had that could dissect an offense. I remember the Indy game where he took control of the second half and told the defense where every play was going after Manning made his audible at the line.

And, yes, he did recover a fumble in Foxboro.

H

11:09 AM  
Blogger H said...

One more thing. Jack Tatum made his reputation with hitting. But, the guy could tackle also. He could come up and support the run with the best of all time.

H

11:15 AM  
Blogger H said...

Since we are talking defense.

In Super Bowl XI, Freddy was the MVP. But, I remember Tatum standing over Sammy White, and Willie Brown doing a pick six. The front seven doing the mauling.

In Super Bowl XV, Plunkett was the MVP, but Rod Martin picked off three and Ron Jaworski didn't get time to breath. He was smothered all game long.

Super Bowl XVIII a lot of folks remember Allen's run. I remember Jack Squirek picking off Joe Theismann for a TD and Theismann getting beat up all game long.

Jaworski and Theismann have hated the Raiders since.

In all three SB wins it was the defense that set the table for victory.

H

12:11 PM  
Anonymous Arkansan Raider said...

Last night I lifted glasses with a fellow Raider diehard to toast Mr. Jack Tatum and honor his memory.

Tatum epitomized the Raider spirit in my mind.

R.I.P.

---Jeff

6:37 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

We've got leaders in each defensive group ...

Seymour - DLine

McClain - LBs

Asomugha - Secondary

As I see it, each player has a unique, individual role to play while the sub-groups, and the entire unit as a whole needs to be on the same page and help each other out.

The biggest "X" factor in my book is whether the coaching staff "gives" the defensive unit all of the tools and required ammunition to get the job done.

Personnel packages, schemes, game plans, level of aggressiveness and sophistication, unpredictability of the unit, focus of instruction all come into play when you are fighting for inches, feet, and yards.

8:51 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...

Here is the one you crapped out on the last thread again...Now who the hell was this directed at if not Al Davis himself as you accuse someone of "Deceit-n-Piracy" of the franchise...
----------------------------------
I just don't hide behind a pretense that they were diligently preparing to win during their horrendous stretch of futility, deceit and piracy of a once proud and legendary team turned laughing stock of the NFL... like you do.
----------------------------------
Sling all the mud you want...But until you address the crap you posted and explain it it's all on you...This crap is from your own damn soured heart...Not mine...

As for the other matter it was addressing this thread...Funny that you desire to take that one personal as well...But I guess you needed something to try to justify your assaults...



I received an E-Mail that said...

Today is International Disturbed People's Day....Try to help them...

So in keeping with the message here goes...

As I have been posting...The evidence is starting to build that we are turning the corner on a brand new decade of hope...Try to embrace it...Try to remember the joy of being a Raider and don't continue trying to smite the joy of the Nation...

The "Cancer" in the locker room know who they are...

PantyRaider...Just being Real "Cry-Babies"!!!!/_

9:02 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"The biggest "X" factor in my book is whether the coaching staff "gives" the defensive unit all of the tools and required ammunition to get the job done."

I agree, there is talent, whether or not the coaches are able to exploit that talent to the Max is the big X. We have been saying this year after year, hoping it would, but it never has. Aso said it last year or year before last, he said they try new stuff during preseason but go back to what they always do during the season.

We all know who is behind that, question is, as always, will Al let go? I hope Al does it for his own sake, though I am still skeptical, won't believe it till I see it. Been through to many years of " will it change" to bite. Prove me wrong Al, I dare ya.

Disclaimer:

Dear "crew", the last statement in the previous paragraph, does not mean that I think Al reads this blog.

JONES

9:42 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

One thing of note concerning that past "Cancer in the locker room" regarding the team....

Cable wasn’t shy about proclaiming the Raiders a factor in the division, regardless of preseason prognostications. He said the “changing of the culture” has been complete.

Now that is a huge change...We have virtually turned over our roster over the past few seasons and it was this that some of us were pointing at as changes in progress while several others refused to see it and attempted to belittle us for the speculations...While in the end it becomes clear that building a winner took time and even during that slow process "Winning" was everything....That's why it has been accomplished...To "WIN"...

Also of note....

– Offensive coordinator Hue Jackson will call plays from the sidelines, not in the booth.

Now that will also be a fresh look...He can continue to instill his fire-n-emotion even as the game progresses...Just like the "DC" and "HC" can...The players will have a visual of him instead of just an image in their minds...

Now this brings me to another speculation that "BR" touched on...Could it be that Hue is being groomed to take over as "HC" while Cable is being groomed to move into the front office...A smooth transition in progress...The players already jump to his cadence...

"CJ"....

A few things of note so far...

Scot is being developed as a "Hybrid" "DE/OLB"....Maybe in the form of the "Stork"...So I suspect there are packages for that being instilled...

We now have the depth at "LB" and "DE" to play either the 4-3 or 3-4 and other scheme formations as well...It has been noted that we are moving in the direction of some form of a "Hybrid" so I suspect packages are being developed as well...

We also have depth in our "DB"s with speed-n-size..."MM" is a natural blitzer and others may be also...

So as noted the tools appear to be there with the leadership you noted...The intriguing part will be to see how it all comes together...

The one tool that may be lacking is the "NT" unless Henderson or another player can fill that role...

One thing of note here...The last time we played in the 3-4 it was with Bill Pickel @ 6'5" #265 as "NT" which is very small by today's standards...Yet he was still very effective...So who on our roster could be that player today...

PantyRaider...The 12th Approaches!!!/_

9:46 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"The evidence is starting to build that we are turning the corner on a brand new decade of hope"

The ONLY evidence that has any credibility is called WINS. When the wins begin, so will the hope. It could easily go either way, the team is due for something? Even if they stumble into it? 8 wins, it's all we ask, just give us something.

Proof = wins, I'm tired of haggling with you over this losing, get your clown suit on Waste, it's almost football time again.

I'll make you a deal, Waste. If the Raiders make the playoffs, I will leave this site forever. If the Raiders lose more than they win, you have to leave this site forever. Deal?
......sign on the dotted line..................

JONES

9:55 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Something funny from Tom "JawBone" Cable...

“I love it. I think it’s awesome,’’ “I hope I’m the guy that gets to slap him. I think it will be great. I just don’t want him to hit me back. That’s a big dude.’’

Henderson...likes to have a member of the training staff smack him in the face to get him ready.

Please Cable...Don't do a "Hanson" on him before the game...

On a serious not he said...

“We’re going to go after the AFC West. I’m not afraid to say that,’’ “If they picked someone else for it already, that’s too bad. It doesn’t work like that. You’ve got to play the games. This team will be ready to do that.’’

Regarding all the naysayers...The "Doom-n-Gloomers"....

“The next step is to not listen to all the negative. People are going to have an opinion,’’ “That’s just what it is. But they’re not going to dictate who we are or what we are. All that is back there. What’s in front of us is winning a championship. That’s the goal now. Let’s go for it.’’

PantyRaider...I'm On Board!!!!/_

10:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Why would I make a deal with a devil...Bitch...

Low life scum that takes shots at a man's family or post racist towards a man's black wife will never get any form of a hand shake from me...

Crawl back down in your toilet...Don't address me I don't address you...

10:10 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

What's that I smell? Is it laying an egg? Bawk bawk bawk bawk....CHICKEN.

Waste is a waste of time. What's a matter, your testicles are all shriveled? You just got out of the pool? Bawk bawk bawk...he's scared of me, he called me satan. Come on stud, put your balls where your sack is....man up.

JONES

10:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"Satan" means "LIAR"....

(Gk.) usually translated as diabolos "slanderer," lit. "one who throws (something) across" the path of another....

Yah!....That fits...

10:36 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

It does fit, Waste. Read over all your posts on here, it fits like a glove.

Disclaimer:

Just because I referenced the "glove" doesn't mean I think O.J. reads this blog.

JONES

10:42 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Oh!...Now I get's it "NYR"...

You left that crap behind when in your estimation that thread was over so thus you had the very last word on record...Than you were upset by the fact that your crap followed you onto this new thread as though there is some "Terms of Posting" that restricts each comment to the thread upon which it was originally posted...

Do you make up these rules as you go along or did you get "RT" to sign-off on that one...Thus we are no longer allowed to re-post comments from prior threads so those of the past are forever forsaken from accountability...

Well now can I also apply that to my "Enabling" and say that was past and I now bear no further responsibility for our last 7 years of futility...Or apply it to Mr Davis saying whatever mistakes were made are past and unaccountable to this new season/decade...

OK....I likes that...I'll sign off on it...You now have my full agreement on record...

To that point...Al Davis is now responsible for what ever he does this season regarding this season and what was is forgotten and thus forgiven and NOT held accountable....

Wow!...Way to slaughter that "DeadHorse" once and for all...

Kool...Let's get on with the new history...

For understanding see "NYR"s post of 4:42am towards the beginning of this thread which was addressed to me...

Whoops!...Wait just a moment...That was on this thread so I can re-post it here agin...

So let it be re-posted...
---------------------------------
I just don't hide behind a pretense that they were diligently preparing to win during their horrendous stretch of futility, deceit and piracy of a once proud and legendary team turned laughing stock of the NFL... like you do.
---------------------------------
It’s truly a shame that you have to spoil the sanctity of a tribute to the great Jack Tatum by spewing your childish “doom-n-gloom” drivel from the previous thread here on this one.
----------------------------------

PantyRaider....Hoary!...No More "DeadHorses"!!!!/_

3:39 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The Oakland Raiders have signed their first round pick in the 2010 NFL Draft, LB Rolando McClain.

According to the Oakland Raiders Twitter page, the team has signed eighth overall pick linebacker Rolando McClain to a contract. Terms have not yet been released.

McClain is in the house...

PantyRaider....Ya Heared It Here 1st Folks!!!/_

3:47 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The roster has been turned over and the "Culture" has changed....


‘Wow, there’s 28 new faces’ and everyone of them bring a football character quality to the team. And understand that’s different than normal
character. And that’s guys that love the damn game. They’re passionate about it, they want to be good at it and they demand others around them to be that way. That, and our football I.Q. We’re a much smarter team than we were a year ago. We should be able to display that.


This was progress though not seen by "Some" as such at the time...

PantyRaider...The Plan In The Making!!!!/_

4:41 AM  
Blogger H said...

Arkansas,

Long time no hear. Well said.

The travesty in Tatum’s passing is he may now, finally, be given his due and be selected for the HOF by the Veteran’s Committee. Willie Brown touched on it in an interview where he said his chances are better now.

The thing is, you are either good enough or you are not. The problem is defensive players are less likely for induction and safeties are the least likely amongst defensive players to be inducted. Combine that with the bum rap he got for the Darryl Stingley hit.

Calico,

The current talent level for the defense is there. Two rookies either of whom could be defensive rookie of the year, two former Pro Bowl linemen and a Pro Bowl corner back.

Along with your questions those five players must play up to their potential. For John Henderson though, I’m not expecting Pro Bowl stuff. Twenty solid plays a game. Also, will Mike Mitchell show us that toughness that made him a second round pick and, after a solid year, is Tyvon Branch the real deal.

On paper there is potential out the whazoo. How the pieces fit together and how they are utilized is now the mystery.

As for Trevor Scott’s comments about doing some of both (LB, DE), it goes back to Cable’s comments about “surprises” on defense and most practices being closed to the press and public. More will be disclosed if more practices in camp are open.

H

4:47 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

A comment from another thread...It testifies to how McClain kept his word and how Mr Davis has kept his to the fans and is hell bent on winning...


McClain is only the third first round pick to have signed his contract. He is by far the highest selection to have signed. Dez Bryant is the next at 24.


PantyRaider....The Nation Is In Positive Mode!!!/_

4:55 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Panty Raider -

In one post you point a finger at me for calling out deceit and piracy (like that could never happen to the Raiders), and in the next you complain about cancer in their locker room.

That makes you a hypocrite, plain and simple.

You still have yet to cite a post that I made a classless attack on Al Davis... as you claim.

I think I have your number. You are a clown with nothing better to do than post 50 times a day on this board and probably about a dozen other boards, fantasizing about the Raiders’ greatness and making personal attacks against those that may have a different opinion than yours.

Step off. Find something else to do for a couple weeks. Get some therapy.

5:28 AM  
Blogger H said...

Everyone’s in camp.

A full time offensive coordinator, and a full time head coach.

Seymour has stepped up his leadership role.

Campbell is a marked upgrade to Russell, and so is Ski.

Bush appears to be the taking control of who is the lead back.

We drafted two of the top defensive players in all of college last season.

Everyone is healthy starting camp.

No major soap opera stories for the media to latch on to.

What’s not to be pumped about (besides that O-Line thing, but it’s a work in progress at present).

Now, if we can only do something about those pesky officials.

H

6:28 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm hearing that now that Seymour will be here for a full camp, his leadership impact will grow, and that this makes the trade for him worth it, despite the fact that we have yet to see him have a significant impact on the overall performance of the defense.

What about Asomugha? What about Ellis, who ripped the kids last summer when they partied instead of preparing for the preseason? Who was listening to those guys? Is Seymour a better babysitter?

I think it's nice to have another firm veteran leadership presence, but it's not like we didn't have any.

I don't think Seymour or anyone else keeps those kids from partying last summer instead of preparing. Unless there's a culture of accountability driven by a strong coach with authority, the veterans' message will fall on deaf ears (as it did last year).

The good news is that I think Cable might be in a place now to exert such a culture. I think it has more to do with Cable than Seymour or any other veteran.

6:57 AM  
Blogger H said...

“Always with the negative waves, Moriarty. Have a little faith baby, have a little faith.”

Amongst the kids this year are two film junkie, highly dedicated, no nonsense rookies from winning programs who want to win. They have great respect for coaches and veterans and understand the trimming of the dead wood so to speak.

McClain spoke of that being a problem at Alabama his first year and to a lesser extent the second year. In the first year some players wouldn’t buy into the discipline and the overall plan Saban brought with him. When those were weeded out through attrition and being kicked off the team, well the results are there for all to see.

Ellis ripped the kids, but that’s not leadership. Seymour is leading. He’s leaning on them, showing them how it gets done.

I agree Cable is the main clog in this leadership/culture thing, but if he gets some help from a guy with multiple Pro Bowls and championship rings. Well, so much the better.

H

7:24 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

"If he gets some help from a guy with multiple Pro Bowls and championship rings. Well, so much the better."

Well, of course.

But at what cost? The next McLain? A potential 8-year starter?

As for Ellis, don't be coy. Ripping the kids wasn't all he did. Just as when Seymour spoke out later about lack of preparation, that wasn't all he did, either. Ellis was a Pro Bowler more recently (2007) than Seymour (whose last Pro Bowl was 2006). He's not chopped liver.

It's a nice story about Seymour magically transforming the character of the defense, something that Asomugha and Ellis and Seymour couldn't do last year. It will be nice when (if) it happens.

But it comes down to results, and so far, the Seymour trade hasn't delivered those results (and neither, apparently, has the absence of Rob Ryan).

You can call me negative. But I'm positive that I'd like to have the next McLain in next year's draft.

7:59 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

Agree 100% on the "Zebra"s...That's always a problem we have to learn to live with...

"RT"...

As for Richard's influence who the hell said it was as a "Baby Sitter"...He is a leader on the field...He is the type of player who elevates the play of those around him...His leadership is in the way of commitment and film study and as he put it getting into his own game and making himself better...That's what will rub of on the youth...That veteran leadership by example...

Another thing...How many rings did he earn...How many did Ellis earn and how much could Ellis do on the field where it really counts...He was on the downside of his peak and let go so he fell into our laps...When has anyone said Seymour was on the downside of his peak...I haven't heard that about him....Henderson maybe but not Richard....

Namndi is a leader also...Why is it bad to have more than one on a unit...As "CJ" pointed out with McClain we should now also have one with the "LB"s....That would be 2 vets and a rookie as area leaders...Sense when would that be bad....Now also we have Biekert's return to help McClain become the full potential of his talents and the retired "LB"/coach leadership ta-boot....

The results are there if you stop closing your eyes to them...Look at the attitude of the players around them...The type of commitment that is coming out now on that side of the ball...The excitement on the part of the players and coaches....The old and the new all together...It's all gaining momentum and that's contagious in the Nation...

We feel it...Why the hell can't you....

PantyRaider...Stop Trying To Saddle Your "DeadHorse"s...They'll never Ride Off Into The Sunset!!!!/_

8:49 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...

Very Shallow as usual...Remembering it was you who wanted to play "SmashMouth" about my positive attitudes and posts and even questioning their origin...Than this is the type of crap you directed at me while trying to say I'm doing the attacking...
-----------------------------------
I just don't hide behind a pretense that they were diligently preparing to win during their horrendous stretch of futility, deceit and piracy of a once proud and legendary team turned laughing stock of the NFL... like you do.
---------------------------------
It’s truly a shame that you have to spoil the sanctity of a tribute to the great Jack Tatum by spewing your childish “doom-n-gloom” drivel from the previous thread here on this one.
----------------------------------

Never own anything you do or say...

Bob-n-Weave and Hide-a-Way...

Bash the Raiders by the bay...

That's your agenda everyday....

PantyRaider...I Give You No Quarter!!!!/_

8:59 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Let's not get emotional. I'm simply sticking to the subject of the Seymour trade value, which some are trying to inflate with all of this talk about how he's making a huge difference when we still don't have the results to show it.

But I realize that I can't have a mature debate about this.

If I try, I'm saying that there's something "wrong" with having more veteran leaders, and that Seymour isn't good and isn't a help.

In other words, cheap tricks and runaway emotions.

The intellectual rigor of this site is reaching new lows. Who's going to help me step it back up?

9:12 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Oh!...By the way...Here is where I post and I challenge you find the slightest confrontation with anyone...

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2010/7/29/1594007/report-raiders-sign-first-round#comments

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2010/7/28/1592895/the-importance-of-twitter#comments

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2010/7/26/1589783/houston-we-have-a-contract#comments

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/2010/7/13/1568472/and-then-there-was-one



I own what I say -n- Do...

No need to lie as "Some" do....

Now you can search it threw -n- threw...

Twisting it as you always do...

PantyRaider...Ah!...The Freedom!!!/_

9:20 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Well "RT" for starters how about giving some clarification because I'm confused by your posts when everything you say about the man is negative....

Do you believe...

Seymour isn't good and isn't a help.

Or that he isn't as good now as the potential of that 1st rd pick next year and how the hell can you possibly put a value on that now...

Ya know...If this thing works out the value of that pick is going to be much lower than you may be anticipating...

The next McLain? A potential 8-year starter?

Add into that equation the possibility that we franchise Seymour again next season and give him up to get that 1st rd pick back again after utilizing the man's services for 2 full seasons...Now what would be the value loss in your book of value factors than....

Now as for your hypothetical...

cheap tricks and runaway emotions.

I'm not at all sure what that even means as relates to this thread...

Also as for this...

The intellectual rigor of this site is reaching new lows. Who's going to help me step it back up?

As I stated before it all starts with you....Aside from answering a few negative assaults with negative assaults of my own my posts have been positive and to the point about Raider football...The type of issues that only a few are willing to discuss while others need to continue to peruse their "DeadHorse"s...

Why don't you take some advise from our team's "HC" and....


“The next step is to not listen to all the negative. People are going to have an opinion,’’ “That’s just what it is. But they’re not going to dictate who we are or what we are. All that is back there. What’s in front of us is winning a championship. That’s the goal now. Let’s go for it.’’

As I posted earlier...

Now looking at today instead of yesterday's ill feelings...

What do you think about how our 1st rd pick signed so much earlier than the rest....

What's your perspective on the highly improved atmosphere around the team....The changing of the culture...The overturning of the roster the past few seasons...The potential "Hybrid" "D" and possible potent "O" that's about to be fielded...

Or are those all things outside of your consideration because your still trying to put a saddle on those "DeadHorses"...

PantyRaider...Trick-or-Cry...Trick-or-Yell....Trick-or-!!!!/_

9:49 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

To answer your question, I am hopeful about a lot of things. But recent history has told me that hope and a nickel aren't worth a five-cent cup of jack squat.

So pardon my reticence with regard to declaring victory before we've won anything.

For years now, I have heard virtually the EXACT same statements from you, others and the Raiders themselves. We know how that worked out.

Yet now you demand (yes, demand) that I buy your words, at the risk of agitating your hate trip.

And you see no irony in that.

You have become the top perpetrator of ill will here, whether you realize it or not.

Meantime, you call me negative, while you and others routinely dismiss our most recent success (the Gruden era) and those who were instrumental in it. Wow, how POSITIVE.

You trash actual success while declaring success before it even happens.

10:26 AM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"I think I have your number. You are a clown with nothing better to do than post 50 times a day on this board and probably about a dozen other boards, fantasizing about the Raiders’ greatness and making personal attacks against those that may have a different opinion than yours."....


I think they call them trolls.

Everything Waste writes is a projection, the guy really is braindead. I watched "one flew over the Cuckoos nest" on TV the other day and all I could think of was PantyWaste in the "jail" on a computer. With all his "friends" helping him write his essays about nothing. When's the next shock therapy?

JONES

10:35 AM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

RT,

I'm not upset with trading a first rounder for Seymour.

You say you would like to have the next Mclain, but odds are, we only gave up the next Russell, Mcfadden, or DHB.

I can live without that.

While Seymour may not be great anymore, at least he is a serious football player, and still productive.

Did we overpay ? Maybe, but at the rate we blow first rounders, not really.

12:59 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Fair points, Raider00.

If we measure the value of a first-round pick as the equivalent of DHB or Russell, then yes, by all means, give me Seymour.

Personally, I'm OPTIMISTIC that we can do much better than that, that McLain is the real deal, that we're getting our draft act together, and that we are overdue to go on a streak of solid first-round picks who can help us for the long term.

In which case, I don't make that trade. He's already a year older, and we're still waiting for him to have an appreciable impact on our defense.

1:52 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

RT,

I have to sigh, and roll my eyes.

I guess you're not paying attention.

Because of what Gruden & Allen did seven yrs ago, the Raiders will never be able to make good first round draft picks ever again...And it's all their fault.

Don't you understand. LOL.

4:01 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yes, then by all means, I retract my original view on the Seymour trade.

In fact, next year, I think that we should trade our top 2012 pick for Brett Favre. Everybody needs a veteran backup quarterback, and since debating value is verboten, there's no downside to such a trade.

I wouldn't mind added veteran depth at wide receiver, either. I think we should trade picks 2 through 6 in 2011 for Wes Welker.

4:18 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

RT,

Now you're talking sense.

And afterall, if it doesn't work, it's all Gruden & Allen's fault.

That's the beauty part.

5:37 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Don't get me wrong ...

I like the way this off-season is going and the positive vibe at camp.

I like that there has been no controversy or unnecessary distractions to side-track us from the task at hand.

I like that Cable is coaching to win the AFC West division this year and clearly states that as a goal.

I like that Seymour was the 1st on the bus and that McClain was signed the night before the 1st practice.

I like that the back of Raiders players' T-shirts says `Take the next step. To get there, we must not allow other people's limited perception to define us.'

All of this is wonderful 'news'. Nothing wrong with cute slogans, positive quotes, and optimistic views going into a new season.

But I'm well past the point of patiently waiting for this 8 year rebuilding program to bear fruit.

The warm & fuzzy feelings enjoyed in the off-season is completely meaningless until the team starts stacking up W's.

Before any jacks me up, understand this ...

I fully realize it is a process. You don't go from a 5 win team who was blown out 6 times to the SB the next year. However, a competitive team that executes and plays tough, spirited, smart football would be a step in the right direction. We will all know if & when we see this type of football.

A 3 game improvement would be tangible traction. 8 or more wins, in my opinion is where the bar should be set for 2010. IMO, anything less would be a disappointment.

6:31 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Calico,

In 2007, the Dolphins won 1 game.

The very next season, the fish won 11 games, and made the 2008 playoff's.

Meanwhile, Raider fans are hoping this is the year we finally can win 7 or 8 games. Eight years removed from our last playoff appearance.

And after seven seasons of record setting losing.

Excuse me if I'm not all that hopeful.

7:22 PM  
Anonymous scorpio said...

chiming in late but rest in peace jack!

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL NATION? FINALLY!!!!!

8:05 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

07/29/2010 Waived WR Damola Adeniji and released DT Ryan Boschetti

My reply to....

Let the past stay dead !!!


That's Been My Stance Also...

I keep hearing how we can’t go back and talk about our glorious history as a team because we are all living in the past and not relevant to the present 7 yr disaster that has become the Raiders…OK….Than by the same token those 7 seasons are now of the last decade as we now enter a new era in Raider history so we have no need to be saddled with it any longer….What was was and what will be will be….

Look ahead….Preserve the cherished memories….Learn from the mistakes….

Those are the normal 3 steps in a man’s life…Why can’t it apply to the game and team as well…

8:15 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

At least you could try to get realistic instead of throwing that "Crap" at the wall to see what sticks while you ignored almost every single topic I raised while saying in answer...NO...That is NOT in answer to squat....here it is again...
---------------------------------
What do you think about how our 1st rd pick signed so much earlier than the rest....What's your perspective on the highly improved atmosphere around the team....The changing of the culture...The overturning of the roster the past few seasons...The potential "Hybrid" "D" and possible potent "O" that's about to be fielded...
----------------------------------

So now what am I expected to do...Go down your pitiful list and explore topic after topic..."BS"...

One thing you said is justified and I'll own it...
----------------------------------
You have become the top perpetrator of ill will here, whether you realize it or not.
----------------------------------
You damn rights I have...As I said when I came back to this board it's without the kid-gloves and I still remember why I left and my proclamation that I will be NO part of the Raider bashing that has taking place here...I was against it than and I'm damn sure against it now so duck...Those damn stanky "ShitBall"s of "Crap" are coming back at'cha...

"DeadHorse" "RoadApples"....

As for the rest of this "Crap" it is just that...
---------------------------------
Yet now you demand (yes, demand) that I buy your words, at the risk of agitating your hate trip.
---------------------------------
NO...I have demanded that you show cause and you have refused to do so...How the damn hell am I or anyone else on this board an "Enabler"...That's a damn lie...
---------------------------------
Meantime, you call me negative, while you and others routinely dismiss our most recent success (the Gruden era) and those who were instrumental in it. Wow, how POSITIVE.
---------------------------------
NO...No one here to my knowledge dismissed anything including the harm that was done that you are refusing to acknowledge...You also refuse to acknowledge that Bruce Allan signed of on White/Turner/Bugle and dismiss that from his record as well as his mistakes in "TB" as you post about his greatness as a "GM"...You do the same about Gruden while ignoring his 1st 2 seasons of 8-8 that were good only due to Willie Shaw's "D" and NOT as a result of his "O"s and than his continued failures in "TB"...When you talk about the man we look at his complete record which is being limited by you so you can pimp the man instead of the franchise...Than you ignore the fact that the "Mole" was on board with Allan and until after Shell II and what influence he may have had...
---------------------------------
You trash actual success while declaring success before it even happens.
---------------------------------
NO...The success has already shown it's face...I spoke about the turning over of the roster and the implementing of a new attitude and the changing of the culture as well as the additions of new coaches that should solve many of our past problems...I could see it taking place and posted as such while continually getting your damn little "ShitBall"s thrown at me for my positive takes while you portrayed some of us as KoolAid" drinkers who were blindly being misled...We were bashed along with Mr Davis because we refused to abandon ship and climb on your stinking sinking dingy...

PantyRaider...Holy "ShitBall"s BatMan!!!/_

9:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"....

I enjoyed your realistic take...I think that's exactly where many of us are at this stage of the preseason...

The one thing I do differently at this time of the year is concentrate of the positive moves and look for the negs to get addressed and than watch to see how it all transpires on the field...The positive moves that are seen are a very strong encouragement that gives reasons to believe that it will translate to the field as well...

I do disagree on one item...The "V"s...I expect to be in contention for the AFCW or a "WC" so I believe 10 is the magic # in our division and a 4-5 win record within the division which would make the difference on getting that "WC" berth...

PantyRaider....Time Will Tell!!!/_

9:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

“The one thing I got from him is he’s a very real guy,’’ Mitchell said. “.He’s not going to B.S. you. He heard the comparisons people were making from me to him, but he just told me to be myself, go out and play the way I play.

“He liked my passion, he liked my enthusiasm. I think that’s the thing you can learn from a guy like that, take the knowledge that he gives you and do what you do, don’t try and be anyone else. Play the way you play.’’

Prctice "DL"...Starting Unit...

"RDE"...Matt Shaughnessy
"RDT"...Richard Seymour
"LDT"...Tommy Kelly
"LDE"...Lamarr Houston

"O"...

the Raiders offense was described by Michael Bush as “smashmouth’’ and by receivers as “vertical.’’

“He’s not going to shy away from anything. You know what to expect. We know what to expect. You know where the balls are going to be. That’s really all you can ask for as receivers, a dependable guy that’s going to go out and work hard every day.’’

Said Murphy: “He spoke loudly, commanded the huddle. It was great being able to follow our quarterback.’’

PantyRaider...Positive Vibes Instill Hope!!!/_

9:30 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Panty said,


"What's your perspective on the highly improved atmosphere around the team....The changing of the culture...The potential "Hybrid" "D" and possible potent "O" that's about to be fielded..."
***********************************

Panty, we're always hearing this same old crap from the Raiders.

Remember Art Shell 2 ? The return of Raider football, and a new culture.

The vet Qb, Aaron Brooks was brought in, and all pro Wr Randy Moss, for the new high powered offense.

Rob Ryan was installing a dynamic 3-4 defense,(Whatever happened to that?). Remember Panty ??

Does it all sound familiar yet ?

It's always the same hype, smoke n mirrors, big talk from the Raiders.

But then the season starts, and the truth is revealed.

So now everyone is "hoping" this year will be different.

Well you can keep the hope. I'm waiting for the real thing.

9:38 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"What he preaches to us in the meeting rooms, he says we're going to run the ball to open up the passing game," running back Michael Bush said. "Once we get that going we'll build up a good offense."

OK...Now that's something we can sink our teeth into...Past "O"s have tried to pass to open the run and failed...Well with the likes of "JeFat" at the helm how could his passing open the door for anything except Ints Fumbles-n-Sks......Past "O"s also tried to open the pass with the run to no avail because the pass was too deficient to be delivered on target on time...

Now...If we build that good effective running game and play off it with an effective passing attack we are going somewhere...

PantyRaider...1st Hints Of The "O"!!!!/_

9:46 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I hear you, Raider 00. I know it is possible for MAJOR turnarounds by teams in any given season.

A MAJOR turnaround should be the goal for the Raiders in 2010 not 2012.

Please don't mistake what I posted to mean that I believe 8 wins is the end all goal. It's not.

I simply stated the opinion that,

"8 or more wins, in my opinion is where the bar should be set for 2010." (don't forget the keyword 'more') :D

9:48 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raider00...

I understand your stance but feel it's a shame that the "Doom-n-Gloom" of the past few seasons has robed you of your Raider joy-n-excitement going into a new season/decade of hope....

Yes...We were let down in the past by those of the past but Shell II and "SOB" are long gone now as well as the bitterness of the players like Porter who we fielded back than...The roster has been turned over...All that remains are those of high charater who have the desire to work hard play the game and win...The lazy ass fat bastard malcontents are no where to be found...

That was a long a painful process of cleaning house but now were on the verge of reeping it's bennifits...So even if your mug is only holding a few drops of that precious Raider Brew...Won't ya atleast try to tip a mug with me...

My mug is so full I had to go "SupperSize" it...No more "Half Pints" for me Bro...I got's the 2 liter size...

PantyRaider...Intoxication Is Great!!!!/_

9:57 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raiders Black Ale On Ice...

10:01 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

"What's your perspective on the highly improved atmosphere around the team....The changing of the culture...The potential "Hybrid" "D" and possible potent "O" that's about to be fielded..."
===================================
My opinion on the vibe of the camp and overall team spirit and togetherness is a plus. However, this is true in most camps due to the nature of a fresh new season and "new beginnings". Although I appreciate this outlook, what I really care about is how the team performs on Sundays.

As far as the changing of the culture, IMO, that is STILL a work in progress. The culture that still sticks with us (until PROVEN otherwise) after 7 straight double digit loss seasons, is a losing culture. This is the culture that needs to be decisively removed by the action on the field not a few catchy slogans and pc quotes.

The potential "hybrid" D is intriguing if it (a) is implemented (b) is effective. Still in a prove it mode. Still want to see how the pieces fit and what personnel packages are the most effective.

I have deep reservations about a "potent" offense. What I think is more realistic is an efficient and more balanced offense which is an entirely different. Nevertheless, this would be a huge stride forward. The passing attack CAN ONLY go up considering we are at rock bottom.

10:02 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

"What he preaches to us in the meeting rooms, he says we're going to run the ball to open up the passing game,"
***********************************

Wow, I find this to be an interesting quote. We can only pray that it is true.

How many times in the recent past have we seen Raider coaches abandon the running game if it's not working early ?

If I were Tom Cable, I would hand the ball off 50 times in a row in the opener against the Titans.

I would do this for two reasons.

1) Show the other teams, and your own players, that you're serious about running the ball this time.

2) A good running team is a team with toughness, and character.

Running the ball builds toughness and character because in the 4th quarter, the 0-line knows it can control the ball/clock, and push a tired defense around.

We'll see if Cable means what he says for a change.

10:25 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raider00...

That quot was referring to what our new "OC" is preaching...Hue not Cable but I imagine Cable is down with that because that's what the "ZBS" is suppose to bring to the "O"...

PantyRaider...Intrigued and Excited!!!/_

10:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

The preaching starts 1st and than the believing in it after it's put into practice...Cable needs to get into their heads with a positive vibe that's contagious...

Remember with Gruden...He had some sort of slogans also with regards to this...He also came into a culture of losing and had to turn that around before it translated to "V"s on the field...Thing is the losing culture Cable took over was by far much worst...

It was Willie Shaw who turned the "D" around in only one season and the "O" had to catch up 2 yrs later...

If we can get this "D" to turn around now the way that one did we are well on our way...Remember we also brought back that "DL" coach who worked under Shaw and now Biekert as a "LB" coach who was part of that unit under Shaw...So dare we say "Help Is On The Way"...

I believe in Hue and the players believe in him...With the addition at "QB" and the maturing at the other specialty positions this unit will perform much better than in the past...

The "OL" has been addressed too but time will tell...

PantyRaider....Hardly A Trace Of Skepticism!!!/_

10:48 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This helps to maintain such a positive outlook...Very little financial stress and a warm pleasant way of life...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esqGD5oxOe4

I dread coming back but will enjoy making a game or two in Sept/Nov...

PantyRaider....Time To Hoist Me Colors!!!/_

1:54 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PR said: “Those damn stanky "ShitBall"s of "Crap" are coming back at'cha...”

Yes. That’s exactly how I would describe your posts.

It’s a shame that someone could be so feeble-minded as to blame Raider fans for the Raiders record-breaking losing streak.

PR said: “Than you ignore the fact that the "Mole" was on board with Allan and until after Shell II and what influence he may have had...”

What? Deceit? Piracy?

Sure, you can talk about it, but you slam others for even thinking such a thing could to happen to the Raiders; once again, proving your ridiculous hypocrisy.

Get some therapy!

4:51 AM  
Blogger H said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

8:35 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

I still say ripping people isn’t leadership. It may include some ripping, but it takes more than that. 2006 or 2007 Big Deal. Seymour has three rings. At the end of your career, assuming you had to choose, which would you prefer to be known for championships or all star games.

Gannon was a two time Pro Bowl MVP, I would have preferred him being a two time Super Bowl MVP. If Seymour provides that spark, that leadership that gets us over the hump, then he’s worth that first round pick. Besides, we may have picked up that next McClain in the second round this year. Some of the so called experts are saying they may have way underestimated him. If they are right, we picked up two first rounders this year.

Look at it this way. At least someone is publically stepping up and saying “follow me”. When’s the last time we’ve seen that?

Raider00,

“I have to sigh, and roll my eyes.”

Careful big guy, some cities are trying to make that illegal.

Calico,

“I fully realize it is a process. You don't go from a 5 win team who was blown out 6 times to the SB the next year”

Not out of the realm of possibilities. Here’s a five year stretch for the Atlanta Parakeets:
1996 – 3-13
1997 – 7-9
1998 – 14-2 (Super Bowl)
1999 – 5-11
2000 – 4-12

A rise and fall of monumental proportions. If you saw a teams five year record was 33-47 and only had one winning season, would you really think they went to the Super Bowl during that stretch.

And, yes I know all about the last seven years. It's mentioned here daily.

But, even with those last seven wrist slitting years, we’ve won more regular season games, made the playoffs more times, won more playoff games, won more division championships, appeared in more AFL/AFC championship games and won more Lombardi trophies than any other team in our division and almost every other team in our conference. We’ve been spoiled, which only enhances our frustration.

Scorpio,

Hell Yeah!!!!!!!!!!

H

8:35 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...Please...

You are getting more and more ridicules by the second...What is this...The "Bitch" session for you...You can't get threw the day without another and another something to cry about...

#1....This was evidently regarding "RT"s posted attitude and as far as I know had nothing to do with little ol you...But I could be wrong...He said I'm "Enabling" so somehow responsible for the continuation of the bad decisions that have prolonged that losing streak...
---------------------------------
It’s a shame that someone could be so feeble-minded as to blame Raider fans for the Raiders record-breaking losing streak.
----------------------------------


#2...What the hell did I say was bad about the "Mole"s influence....I simply said his presence in the front office at the time has been ignored entirely...
----------------------------------
PR said: “Than you ignore the fact that the "Mole" was on board with Allan and until after Shell II and what influence he may have had...”

What? Deceit? Piracy?

Sure, you can talk about it, but you slam others for even thinking such a thing could to happen to the Raiders; once again, proving your ridiculous hypocrisy.
----------------------------------
Now really...Don't you feel a little foolish about now after posting all that damn stupidity...

"ShitBalls" cumin back at'cha!!!....

I'm sure if you tried real hard you could come up with something legitimate without having to twist the hell out of everything I post...

Check my last response to "RT" for an example...He accused me and I accepted it...Now that should give you something legitimate to cry about...

PantyRaider...Damn Ignorance!!!/_

9:26 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

"If Seymour provides that spark, that leadership that gets us over the hump, then he’s worth that first round pick."

"If"

So far, the return on investment is questionable, particularly when you consider we may only have one more year of his service.

Also, if the Raiders fall flat on their faces, as they did (and continued to do) after Sapp and other vets were brought in, it will be tough even for a high-character guy like Seymour to hide his displeasure.

It's a vicious cycle. What will it really take for the Raiders to break away from their tailspin?

9:30 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Careful "H"...Your posting way out of the accepted reality....Going back so far in our history like that....How dare you...

Don't you realize we are defined by the last 7 seasons and Cable is out of line for this...


“The next step is to not listen to all the negative. People are going to have an opinion,’’ “That’s just what it is. But they’re not going to dictate who we are or what we are. All that is back there. What’s in front of us is winning a championship. That’s the goal now. Let’s go for it.’’


No Coach Cable...That is just not acceptable...You must drill into their heads that they are the losers that they are as proven by that past 7 season record...No matter that some of the current players on this roster were no part of that event...They are here now so they have to own it...PERIOD!!!!....

"Ground Rules"....Only the negative shall prevail...

PantyRaider....Why Am I Laughin!!!/_

9:39 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

I know...I know....(While waving my hand in the air)...

Just pull the ejection lever and be done with it all...Run-n-Hide...Evacuate...Shit your diaper...

Just do something Baby...We're crashing!!!...



Maybe Al Davis has the answer...

#1...Bring in Hue to assist Cable and design a legitimate "O" scheme that these players can perform well within...

#2...Change the "QB"...

#3...Let Cable continue his process of cleaning house and changing the culture...

#4...Add Henderson to Seymour and draft a very positive McClain and Houston...

#5...Trade for and sign 2 addition "LB"s who are vets...

#6...Add acceptable talent to the "OL" threw the draft...

#7...Bring back our "DL" coach from the Gruden era and add our starting "MLB" from that era as an assistant "LB"s coach....

#8...Transform our "D" towards a Hybrid scheme that utilizes all the different talents on that unit...Complex and not easily diagnosed(Speculation)...

#9...Transform our "O" towards a run 1st "Smash Mouth" scheme that plays pass off the run...

#10...Don't allow "JawBone" Cable to get is any fights and don't allow the "Mediot"s to stir up any trouble for anyone....


PantyRaider...Trust In The OldMan!!!/_

9:59 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

DHB reaches back to catch Boller bullet. 'atta way to catch the ball, Darius,' Jackson says

DHB follows it up with sideline catch vs. Thomas via Campbell

Defenders working hard to strip McFadden. As yet, no success

"JMac"s twitter page live updates from camp...

http://twitter.com/jerrymcd

PantyRaider...Front Row Seat For All The Action!!!/_

10:09 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

“If”

I stand firmly unmoved behind that conjunction and the remainder of the sentence that followed it.

Even when you are the defending Super Bowl Champion, each new season is “if”. If they stay healthy? If they don’t get a mainstay player suspended? If the new coordinator who replaced the old one who left for an HC position does his part properly? If the needed free agents are retained? Etc.

See Tampa 2003, Steelers 2009 and others.

Sapp was neither a leader nor high-character when it came to team. He was a mistake from the get-go and I said so. I never liked the guy at Tampa. He took way too much personal credit for the success of Tampa’s defense back then. Bad example.

Here’s another “if”. If this offseason lives up to billing and continues next off season, the vicious cycle is broken.

H

10:17 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I don't think that anyone here has a problem being hopeful. Some of us are more "wait and see" than others, but I don't think anyone is writing this season off.

What I and others object to is what sounds like constant excuse making (I said sounds like, okay? You may not think you're making excuses, but it sounds like it to many of us) for what has transpired.

And what has transpired is the worst stretch in NFL history. All of you who are digging into the past for comparisons, I've got a head's up for you: there is no comparison. We set and EXTENDED the record. In an age when parity has never been more attainable.

I guarantee you that if you stopped blaming Gruden, quit trying to tell me that DHB was a smart pick, quit trying to convince me that the 2008 season was some sort of building block when it was an absolute grease fire, hollering at me for suggesting what Davis and Madden both acknowledged is needed (more executive help), on and on...

If you would just stop with this nonsense, you'd be surprised at how hopeful some of us might sound.

10:24 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

Well than let's put that into practice and see how it all turns out...

Now I'm not going to sign off on what I don't believe and I'm not going to jump on board with you on it either but will continue to post the evidence that shows it's just not true as I have in the past if these "DeadHorse"s continue to have saddles thrown on them....But let's look at what is stopping you from being hopeful this season...

#1...You say we're the worst that have ever been...I posted here absolute prof that we weren't even the worst for that decade...I didn't go back farther than "99" to do it either...And as I posted before I'm not going to be limited to a 7 season span of your liking just so you can prove your right...You are wrong...There were at least 4-5 other teams below us that decade...

#2...Excuses...What is that...How can we excuse anything...We try to post reasonable reasons why something may have happened or what may be taking place to fix it...Now how the hell does that stop you from being positive or hopeful...

#3...Blaming Gruden for what...He wasn't perfect...He made mistakes right along with what he did good but in the end he took a shit right in the middle of his contract and quit on this team...You want me to praise him for that shit...Ain't gonna happen...When I evaluate a coach or player I look at everything and will not be limited to a 2 yr span of your liking...And I will NOT view any coach as the one who made this franchise...The Raiders made him and gave him that opportunity and those toys to work with...Someone else took us further with basically the same damn toys...

#4...DHB...The jury is still out but right now I like the pick...If I like that pick how that hell does that stop you from being hopeful...Would you rather we went after "TO"....

#5...I posted I believe the process was started back in "07" to clean house and change the culture on this team...Cable told us it started midway threw the "08" season...I accepted that and adjusted my thinking accordingly...Now how the hell does that stop you from being hopeful...

#6...We had a "GM" type with Shell II and Turner -n- White -n- Bugle -n- Callihan's 2nd season...It didn't translate into "V"s...Only 3 yrs translated into "V"s of the 10 seasons we had a "GM" type in the front office in "OakTown"...But you want me to believe that somehow if we get one we will be winners again..."BS"...And I think we will become winners now without one...So again...How the hell does that stop you from being hopeful...


So OK...You gave us 6 things...I will exchange my 6 with you...

#1...Please be a man about it and retract your accusations of "Enabling" that you heaped upon us when we had absolutely no damn ability to enable or excuse a damn thing in that front office or on that football field...

#2...Please stop bashing the "GodFather" of the football team I deeply love...Show some respect to the "OldMan"...He has earned it and deserves it...

The remaining "4" I will leave for the other victims of you scorn to sign off on...Don't want to be a hog...

Now...I'm willing to put those things in motion and see how it turns out with the understanding that I believe what I believe and that's not changing without substantiated evidence in support...Lip service and opinions are nothing...Only legitimate factual evidence will alter my thinking on any issue...

And I'm the "Iron Tiger"...I was born with Hope...Conviction-n-Courage...But Contentiousness-n-disobedience too...

PantyRaider...I accept Your Bid -n- Raise You "2"!!!!/_

11:23 AM  
Blogger H said...

Yes Take, and it also "sounds like" total negativity. So we have total negativity vs. excuse making.

There, can we leave it at that and move on? It's like the old 45RPM record with a scratch in it. It keeps playing the same four notes over and over and over.

Ok those numbers I read the other day were inaccurate. It's only a five year contract for McClain. Standard stuff.

Seymour and Nnamdi were both seen after practice working with younger guys. Seymour takng extra time with Houston and Nnamdi was working with DHB on shedding CB's when they jam him at the line of scrimmage.

Veteran leadership anyone?

Schilens left practice early with a trainer. No word why and he didn't appear to be hurt.

H

11:30 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

The Twitter thing said he wasn't hurt but they were being extremely cautious...He may be restricted to one a day practices as a precaution...

I love my Rai/../../..I love my Rai/../../..I love my Rai/../../..

My old "45" stutters whet it speaks...

Reminds me of that Beetle song that we always played backwards on the record player...With a finger turning it in reverse while the needle was down...

"Number Nine"...Back wards it said "Take Me Back"...Real kool stuff...It has the sounds of an auto accident and screams and ghostly speaking about Paul -n- Abby Road...Sure wish I could get my hands on a copy now...What fun those guys were...

PantyRaider...Oops!...I Was Remembering Too Far Back!!!/_

11:47 AM  
Blogger H said...

New Raider Rule this year:

During the season all teams must make coordinators available to the media at least once a week.

H

11:56 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Sorry, PantyRaider, I won't dance to your demands. No retractions, and no excuses. By the way, when did I "bash" the "old man?"

P.S. I wasn't persuaded by a single one of your comebacks on that list.

12:04 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Trust me H, the level of negativity is directly proportional to the level of excuse making. The reason it seems like "total negativity" is because some of us are continually asked to accept a positive spin on negative events, prompting us to state a negative case. Stop the spin, stop the excuses and, trust me, the negative air will clear.

12:10 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

"Here’s another “if”. If this offseason lives up to billing and continues next off season, the vicious cycle is broken."

But every off-season looks like the start of a new beginning, and every season proves otherwise.

See a pattern?

Granted, I like many (ok, most) of the moves this year, but I also felt that way in past offseasons only to be slammed back to earth.

As far as moving on, I'm for it. But there is a mole on this site that has developed a hate trip against many of us and what we perceive to be grounded opinions based on years of repeated failures. He refuses to accept our independent thought and perceptions on how (and when) real change may occur.

Meanwhile, I'm not quite ready to board the good ship lollipop just yet.

12:14 PM  
Blogger H said...

"Stop the spin, stop the excuses and, trust me, the negative air will clear."

Doubtful, very doubtful. A way to start is by telling folks the excuses folks say they are making.

Because then, some of us so called "excuse makers" will have to reitterate for the 20th time to those with short term memory problems where we have disagreed with decisions, and where we have also called for executive help and other things.

That's what I mean by the same four notes. It might be 12 notes, but we seem to be stuck in an infinite circle here.

As soon as someone says something positive we get, "yeah, but the last 7 years."

We've got to loosen up. Move on. It'll be much more enjoyable when it happens.

McClain says it's scary how good they can be if everyone comes to work and does their jobs. So far the first two draft choices are showing the way for the rookie class.

H

12:22 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

Truth be told, when the Raiders do something positive, we tend to respond in kind. We all pretty much agree that the off-season has been solid. I've seen very little disagreement here.

It's when we're asked to go out on the very same limb that got us nowhere the past seven off-seasons that it becomes a little dicey.

Think, what would Pavlov's dog do?

2:07 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Yes, WWPDD?

2:07 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Here we have H proclaiming he is above it all and all the "crews" explanations are based in fact and "positive". It seems the "crew" likes to see themselves as "up here" and the rest as negative nellies, down here.

He then goes on to claim that I (the mole) just won't let the harmony happen. Here is the problem H, it's one rule for the "crew", different rules for everyone else. You say I have a "hate trip", a common cliche used by the "crew", go back and look who started the hate trip from day 1. At that time, if anyone went against the "luv fest" they were attacked as a traitor, as an imposter, as a nonRaider. Stop acting like you are so crystal clean and the rest are so dirty.

You have been a regular propaganda driven slave to Al Davis. You have caused as much hate as anyone else. Many of the "crews" theories have been proven to be WRONG many times over. But, as usual, the "crew" just keeps on spewing these points over and over, not caring what the actual reality is. Because the "crew" continues this, they get ridiculed by those who see the "crew" do this EVERY offseason. It has been de ja vu for 7 seasons, excuse those who aren't into de ja vu. Once the changes have BEEN MADE and NOT PERCEIVED, then we can move on. Until then, NOTHING HAS BEEN PROVEN, no matter how many "ifs" you throw in.

You refuse to acknowledge the fact that the Org has been driven into the ground, you actually condone it by defending it. Maybe if you stopped dreaming that you are intellectually and morally superior, if you stopped pretending that it's all good and it's just around the corner EVERY OFF SEASON when clearly it hasn't been. Maybe then the difference's wouldn't be so great. Maybe then there could be some common ground.

You provoke, you yourself have said it , look in the mirror and stop pointing fingers at those who don't lick Al Davis' boots as the enemy, there might be some common ground.

The "crew" picked this fight long time ago, now, you continue your quest to prove yourselves right. It comes down to ego and the "crews" ego makes you absurd. Lose your ego and pride and ADMIT the Raiders have been a disaster for a long time, even before and during the 3 years where they managed to make the playoffs. The constant BS that is peddled to shift the blame is the problem I have with the "crew". The Luv fest for Al Davis makes you unable to make a sound decision. As soon as a point is made that Al Davis has been the main reason for the poor Org, up come ridiculous statements that he isn't and some are just on a "hate trip". Just get freakin real and there is NO PROBLEM.

Panty has been doing his act every off season, Balanda, just last year, was telling us all how Fassel will be HC and Losman the QB. Now, he pimps that he knows this has been a 3-5 year plan (Cable) that is now coming to fruition. You have been asking for facts to backup claims to why the Raiders have been so poor for a long time. Then you post nothing but "ifs" in all your posts. Can you see the insanity? Can you see why the "crew" isn't taken seriously? Can you see that the rest of the world knows what ails the Raiders but the "crew" doesn't? How can you scold those who live in reality compared to the "crew's" dreamy BS? It's mirror time H, take a long hard look.

JONES

2:32 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

RT, what the hell happened? Can you please delete the repeats, thanks.

JONES

2:34 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

I honestly don't think anyone has been spewing negativity.

If you look at the vast majority of so called "negative" views, what you will find is a healthy slice of reality based opinions.

When your favorite team has gone through the worst stretch of football in the entire history of the NFL, what do you HONESTLY expect? At the same token, when there have been positive developments (ie. this off-season), it has been universally praised.

My views are based on the information that I have at hand. If/When the Raiders turn this around, my opinions will reflect this change accordingly.

5:03 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Would anyone here think the guy that started the billboard campaign is any less a Raider fan?

Is putting Al Davis on notice in a polite way some how excused?

What about Lions fans that staged the fire Matt Millen March?

Fans expect results. And quite frankly, fans deserve results... because fans (we) pay the freight.

So it's not good enough that we had a sensible off-season, or what appears to be an above-average draft relative to recent years, or that the coaches aren't breaking each others jaws (well, not yet), or that the owner isn't embattled (but actually communicates) with his head coach, etc....

And it's not ok if Seymour doesn't make the defense notably better, or if Jason Campbell merely improves on what Russell did, or that DHB is a good down field blocker, etc....

Somebody has to draw the line in the sand.

This period will go down in team (and possibly NFL) history as the worst imaginable.

So suggesting we forget about it and just move on is kind of moot.

5:52 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"BullShit" "RT"...

Demanding a gift and refusing anything in return...That's typical of what this board has degenerated into...

Now your demanding that everyone kiss your damn ass and stop posting what we believe in favor of your constant belittling crap directed at us and the franchise...

No more positive post about a negative franchise...Screw You...

What...Now it's shut our mouths and accept your every twist of the truth...While you continue to be hung up on your own personal agenda of painting that horrific pictorial of Mr Davis...Sick....Totally freakin SICK!!!...


"NYR"...

If you stated something as an opinion that would be one thing...You don't...You post nonfactual crap without the slightest amount of evidence to establish it and state it as fact while trying to belittle the positive opinions of others to the contrary...

And as for some constructive criticism that is directed at the ownership in a respectful manner and acceptable to many of us....Yes....There is a difference...The man has earned that repect and deserves it from every damn one of us regardless of what you think has happened during these past 7 seasons...

Now as for the "Mole"...That acts in secrecy...I'm not in that mode at all...I'm right in your face about it and you know exactly who I am...Where I am...

Saddle up another one of your "DeadHorse"s and send him out on a gallop....I'm the one sitting here with my Marlin Model 1895 "45-70" taking aim to send him back to the dust....

KaaBOOOoooommmm!!!!...

Another one bites the dust....

PantyRaider...It's Like A "Turkey Shoot"!!!!/_

8:49 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

I saw that new Raider Rule too...The stupid "Mediot"s keep complaining that they don't get to speak to Hue and eventually after making enough noise crying about it the NFL writes it into the rule book...How freakin pathetic...

"The pen is mightier than the sword"...

See...That's exactly what has been going on here...Post negative "BS" over and over as "DeadHorse"s until it melts down the resistance and stumbles all into "Mutiny"....

They failed to realize the "Power of the Force"...The "Dark Side" is too powerful to be manipulated by weak Jedi mind tricks...

It has been foretold...We have foreseen it...The Raider Nation will rise above and all will kneel before us...

PantyRaider...Tip Another Raider Brew!!!/_

Intoxication...May the force be with you Master "H"...Brew another...

All hail the Emperor...

8:59 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Hay!..."RT"...

Your sitting there with you pinkie on that "Red Button" and that shit eaten grin on your face...Go ahead...Push it...I did when I left the last time over this continual horse crap...

"DELETE"....

PantyRaider....OOh!..Ouch!...OOOOh!...OOOuch!...Your So Powerful Who Can Stand!!!!/_

And I asked you "Please"...What a freakin joke...Are you for real...

9:07 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Oh! Man!...I'm bringing you down...

Like if I speak positive about my Raiders and Mr Davis your somehow restricted from posting positive and being hopeful...

WoW!...Now that one really took it...I have seen some crying bitches around here but that one really takes it...I didn't know I was exerting so much power on your little mind...

"The Power of The DarkSide"...From 10,000 mile away even...

It's your own damn board and little ol' me is stopping little ol' you from having/showing hope...

Get freakin real....

I have told you repeatedly this board is a direct reflection of you...NOT of any poster who visits it...Now this is what you reflect...
----------------------------------
If you would just stop with this nonsense, you'd be surprised at how hopeful some of us might sound.
----------------------------------

Well now little bewildered mind...If you were to just come out and post positive and hopeful I wager this board would evolve with you...But NO....

"I'm not doing it until each and everyone of you accept my "DeadHorse"s as alive and let them go galloping by"..."Stop shooting my horses you bad bad boys"...."Put down those guns"...

PantyRaider...Shoot-Out At The "RT" Coral!!!/_

9:27 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

You seem very pre-occupied with trying to draw lines in the sand, convince people that the past 7 years shouldn't be discussed, spinning, deflecting, and excusing the worst stretch of football ever.

You got a problem with Raider fans sharing their well founded disappointment of the past 7 years? Fine. The scoreboard, wins, actual results obviously don't mean anything to you.

Using your most recent example:

"Post negative "BS" over and over as "DeadHorse"s until it melts down the resistance and stumbles all into "Mutiny" ...

Please explain PR or better yet, name 1 negative BS post and why you believe it doesn't have any merit.

I think what you are trying to allude to is the fact that many Raider fans won't blindly sign off on this 8 year rebuilding program until ... wait for it ... we see actual results.

9:40 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The real pathetic thing here is that when you leave this degenerated board and troll around other boards ya find an atmosphere of hope and relatively positive speculations with a residual amount of lingering negative mixed in...

While here the "Degenerate Inmates" continue to hang onto the "Neg" like it's some sort of "Badge-o-Honor" that they have earned and needs to be preserved...

"We are the worstest that have ever been"...

Sounds like some "AA" meeting with all those "Criers" in a circle proclaiming that they were the worstest drunks ever...

Well I guess it works...If ya can't be the best than be the worst and be proud of it...

"I'm Bad"..."Ya!...I'm Bad"...

Normal people outside the "Criers Circle" retain cherished memories of what was and look forward to what will be while learning from the negative mistakes and pains of the past....

But Hay!...Who the hell says you have to be normal...

PantyRaider...My Raiders Are Still The Best All Time!!!!/_

9:44 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Wow, PantyRaider, that's a lot of noise signifying nothing in reply to my specific question, which you did not answer:

By the way, when did I "bash" the "old man?"

9:54 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

I didn't mention any "Lines In The Sand"...That was another poster...

OK...The "DeadHorse"s...Here are a few...

And let me acknowledge that of late you have not been as active at supporting those decaying beast and have been posting predominately in a positive fashion...I in no way want to discourage you from that path...It's been refreshing to read again...

"DeadHorse" #1....

Al Davis wears all the hats and so bears all the responsibility for everything that went wrong...

BUT...

During Allan-n-Gruden we will give credit to them for the 2 winning seasons and the residual effects that made the Raiders winners -w- Calihan going to the "SB"...

All hail Gruden/Allan and be-damn Al Davis...

Meanwhile we as positive franchise supporters have drug that dumb "DeadHorse" threw the sands until all the hide is worn off but you still try to saddle it and ride off into the sunset...

So Point #1...Where is the prof that Al davis wears all the hats...One single coach who has testified to it...One single "GM" or front office executive...Not even the "Broken JawBone" or ejected "RAT" or shit-canned Lance have spoken out to that effect...

What do you have...A disgruntled player like Marcus Allan or a big mouth "Yap" like Sapp or a goon like DeHall...Non of which were ever in on front office activities...Non were ever executives...or a damn "Mediot" with an agenda to post lies...

"DeadHorse" #2....

The franchise structure is in violation of established acceptable standards and "Old Men" can't and should not be allowed to rule...

Now that damn stupid "DeadHorse" has absolutely no skin left on it at all...Nothing was ever established to support that crap...To the contrary...The Raider organization is a legitimate Corp Franchise in the State of California and acceptable to the NFL and if there was something wrong the NFL -n- Cort System would be down their throats immediately to unseat Mr Davis due to their cruel and unusual "HateTrip"...

"DeadHorse" #3...

Al Davis has sabotaged his own franchise into a loser...He has "Pirated" it and been "Deceitful"...The man no longer has winning as a top priority...Although everything you throw up at him is all about how he had a desire to win against Lance...So...By the record...Winning was still everything....

"DeadHorse" #4...

We are the worstest to ever take the field...But NOT in any decade and we're NOT going to be restricted to some 7 year itch to establish your perpetual dishonor of the franchise..."Team of the Decades" so take by any decade...

"DeadHorse" #5...

There was never any plan in the making...Noting from the "08" season or before was done to right the ship...Cable is a liar when he says it began midway "08"...The entire turnaround started this season and NOT before...

Ya!..Right!...That's how the roster got turned over and the culture got improved...Just sense Jan. 1st....

So.."CJ"....I think that covers the "DeadHorse"s but I may have forgotten a few...

Now for a question to you...

Why the hell do you find it so rewarding to demand all this crap instead of just looking forward and giving it up to the "OldMan" if he can bring about change now at an advanced age...He has worked his magic in the past...Why are some of you so down on him for trying to do it again...And don't look now but it appears to be working without that "GM" in sight....

PantyRaider...Positive We Ain't Never The Worstest!!!/_

10:22 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

When are you going to address the hundreds of questions I have posted on this board...

Such as...

How the hell am I or anyone else stopping you from being positive-n-hopeful as you claim on your own damn board...

That's all on you not any of us...

As for your bashin of Mr Davis see the list of "DeadHorse"s I post to "CJ"...

PantyRaider...Centered In The Force!!!/_

10:27 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"That's typical of what this board has degenerated into..."

Fuck Waste, you have "degenerated" this board COMPLETELY. Why don't you follow your own advice for once? Your endless posts with NO POINT, WTF are you writing about? There's only so much space in this world and you are WASTING it with this? Just step away.

"Now your demanding that everyone kiss your damn ass and stop posting what we believe in favor of your constant belittling crap directed at us and the franchise..."


Is any one twisting your arm, Waste? FFS, if you don't like it, ya freakin baby, step away.



"No more positive post about a negative franchise...Screw You..."


Get the padded cell ready, we got a real doozy here.

"PantyRaider....OOh!..Ouch!...OOOOh!...OOOuch!...Your So Powerful Who Can Stand!!!!/_"


WTF, get out the Tazer, this guy is way over the edge, he's half way down the cliff. Waste, you have to be one of the biggest freaks that has ever trolled the Net. Doctor, is there a Doctor in the house? They must have some killer shit over there in Thai country, the guy done flip his wig.


JONES

11:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

So...Haynesworth -n- The "RAT" are bunting heads...

I truly hope Henderson has enough left in him to deliver this season but would also still welcome his college teammate if he was released...Or traded if we could get him as cheap as we did "JC"...

This is the kind of thing dreams are made of but a rotation at "DT" with Kelly/Seymour -n- Henderson/Hainsworth would be a thing of beauty and it would keep them all fresh while giving "OL"s absolute fits...

Add to that a rotation at "DE" with Shaughnessy/Houston -n- Scott/Richardson and this unit would be potentially productive to say the least...

Seymour has been playing inside and said he prefers it that way...It's his natural position...But if moved outside to "DE" than pair him with Houston and pair Shaughnessy -w- Scott and add Heard -or- Joseph at "DT" -w- Kelly...


PantyRaider...Just My Fantasies!!!/_

2:06 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PantyRaider -

“You have become the top perpetrator of ill will here, whether you realize it or not” (RT).

You just don’t get it, do you?

You want facts?

Your posts are approximately half the total posts in number and probably 3/4 of the total content on this board. I usually collapse them and just read other posts, but that has become increasingly difficult due to your personal attacks.

You want opinion?

You and your hate trip have become a cancer to this board. You’re the one on here bitching and complaining, and pointing fingers.

Most of us are very interested in seeing what the Raiders do during camp, and engaging in mature discussion on how they MIGHT correct (or be correcting) the plethora of issues that perpetuate them through the worst stretch in modern football history.

Discussing the last seven years is extremely relevant, as it continues to define the Raiders until they prove otherwise.

Your denial of these issues and constant defaming of posters, calling “us” liars is getting very tiresome.

It’s time you grow up and put away your toy sheriff’s badge.

5:47 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider

“Would anyone here think the guy that started the billboard campaign is any less a Raider fan?”

Absolutely not. That’s the way he expressed his frustration. Happy for him that he had the extra change laying around to do it. But, on the same token are those who don’t wallow in the muck and mire of despair, who don’t join the chorus calling for Al to be drawn and quartered at Jack London square, any less a Raider fan?

And the firing Matt Millen march. They could have done that for the last 10 general managers there. They are going on 50 years of futility.

Calico,

“I honestly don't think anyone has been spewing negativity.”

Sorry guy, I can’t buy that one.

H

8:30 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

Sadly but apparently the motivation here has changed...There isn't any fair exchange or legitimacy to the statements nor anything consistent with the obvious evidence that is consistently ignored...

Now we are not only to blame for "Enabling" the longevity of the past 7 seasons of despair but are also responsible for the inability of others to have hope and post positive...

The denial is a thing of beauty as as the rubber walls are moved to -n- fro while the spoons are bent one way and than back again unchecked while proclaiming they never said/did that...Yikes!!!...

Than to top it all off we are under the demand to accept as alive all those "DeadHorse"s that they continue to try to saddle and send off into the sunset...If we just accept it everything will be just fine...In other words..."Get down with the Mutiny or get out"...

I have and we have tried several different tactics to balance the scales but their not having it...So be it...Pearls have no value to swine...

I don't ride saddled "DeadHorse"s and I'm tired of wasting all that ammo shooting them down...

There are better more positive things to consider so onward and upward with the "Raider Way" and the hell with the degenerate depravity that attempts to bring our Raider Luv to a ruin...

PantyRaider...Postin Positive Legitimate Realistic Evidence supporting My Raider Franchise -n- Ownership!!!/_

9:54 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Offense working on swings and screens to McFadden, Bush. Both are good receivers...Also throwing dump-offs to "RunDMc" when the pressure arrives...

This gives us some incite as to what the new "O" will look like...Add that to Hue's preaching Run 1st and pass of the run and we have a fairly good idea of how things will be designed...Also of note are comments from a "Skins" fan who said "JC" was known for throwing allot of short 3-5 yd passes to his backs and letting them run with it...

Bush described the "O" as "SmashMouth" while the "WR"s used the word "Vertical"...

So could we expect to see a run 1st very physical "O" that throws allot to the backs while the "WR"s clear out the middle and run the "DB"s deep...If so that should be very effective between the 20's but hampered when the field becomes short...

Zack said he expects to be a much bigger part of the "O" in the red zone so that gives us some incite on how they will play with a short field...


Than there was this one today...

If I wrote about trick play I just saw, I'd hear about it . . .

I love it...Cable loves those trick plays and we have the versatility and talent to be effective with them...Can't wait to see what develops...


Offense backed at 1, session to create field position. Campbell wedges for a yard, Reece for 2 and Campbell thjrows deep sideline strike JLH

PantyRaider...Almost Like Radio Play-By-Play!!!/_

http://twitter.com/jerrymcd

10:22 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

DHB comes back to catch Campbell out-route vs. Ware, gets props for rout from QB coach Paul Hackett.

Another nice stop route and physical run after catch by DHB .

"DHB" had one drop but made several good plays after...McFab also had a drop...J Ford was well involved and scored a "TD"...But the "DB"s came away with 5 picks..."MM" was all over the field with a mix of the good with being slightly late...

PantyRaider...Re-Cap!!!/_

10:43 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR:

Not sure why you are directing the "Deadhorse" list my way. Nevertheless, let me take them 1 by 1.
=================================
DeadHorse" #1....

Al Davis wears all the hats and so bears all the responsibility for everything that went wrong...

BUT...

During Allan-n-Gruden we will give credit to them for the 2 winning seasons and the residual effects that made the Raiders winners -w- Calihan going to the "SB"...

All hail Gruden/Allan and be-damn Al Davis...
===================================
CJ Rebuttal to DH#1;

It might be semantics but I have always consistently said that Davis wears too many hats not ALL the hats. By this I mean, I firmly believe he needs to hired capable people to include executive support and delegate authority and responsibility accordingly. In a nutshell, I want Davis at the age of 81 to be (1) Owner (2) sounding board to HIS staff
=================================
"DeadHorse" #2....

The franchise structure is in violation of established acceptable standards and "Old Men" can't and should not be allowed to rule...
==================================
CJ's DH#2 rebuttal ...

A GM is in FACT a very important component to an NFL franchise. A man 81 does not have the energy to be as involved in the day to day activities required to run a $800M franchise hence the need to hire, authorize, and delegate. Don't get things twisted though... this is not an "ALL OR NOTHING" statement. Davis would still be VERY involved as Owner. The other hats would be filled by other capable professionals.
================================
"DeadHorse" #3...

Al Davis has sabotaged his own franchise into a loser...He has "Pirated" it and been "Deceitful"...The man no longer has winning as a top priority...Although everything you throw up at him is all about how he had a desire to win against Lance...So...By the record...Winning was still everything....
==================================
CJ's rebuttal to DH#3

I have never doubted Davis' desire to win. I have never said he has been deceitful. I have questioned whether winning has been the top priority the last few years considering how business has been conducted and the results on the field.
================================
"DeadHorse" #4...

We are the worstest to ever take the field...But NOT in any decade and we're NOT going to be restricted to some 7 year itch to establish your perpetual dishonor of the franchise..."Team of the Decades" so take by any decade...
==================================
CJ's rebuttal to DH#4

Fact: The Raiders are the ONLY team in the NFL's entire history to lose 11 or more games in 7 consecutive seasons. Yes, this is worst stretch of football... EVER.
=================================
"DeadHorse" #5...

There was never any plan in the making...Noting from the "08" season or before was done to right the ship...Cable is a liar when he says it began midway "08"...The entire turnaround started this season and NOT before...
==================================
CJ's rebuttal to DH#5

What was the plan prior to 08 and how did this impact where we are today? The fact that the roster has been turned over, players weeded out is part of rebuilding BUT don't act like this has been a "master" plan. I look at a couple things that have transpired over the past 12 months not 8 years.

#1 - Head Coach Stability; although we all know Cable was VERY close to being sent to pasture. If anything, the Russell fiasco bought him another year.

#2 - Axing bad players who shouldn't have been signed to begin with (Wilson, Hall, Walker, etc.)

#3 - A good 2010 Draft and offseason

As I've been saying the past 5 months or so, I have been pleased with the way this offseason has gone. We seem to be on the cusp of "normalcy".

12:22 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

H:

We can cordially agree to disagree. What you view as "negativity" I simply view as reality. When I share my opinion (whether it is praise or disappointment), it is grounded in the facts at hand. If I say the team has sucked for the past 7 years, is that "negativity" or is it just being real?

12:23 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR said to CJ:

"Why the hell do you find it so rewarding to demand all this crap instead of just looking forward and giving it up to the "OldMan" if he can bring about change now at an advanced age...He has worked his magic in the past...Why are some of you so down on him for trying to do it again...And don't look now but it appears to be working without that "GM" in sight...."

I always look forward to each and every season to follow my beloved Raiders. I am not "demanding" anything but simply stating my opinion which is that Davis should hire an executive to help support the endeavors of the Raiders franchise. I believe this is the most sensible, practical way to establish both short term AND long term success. Simply put, I think Davis needs and deserves help. As each year goes by and as we've racked up double digit losses, this becomes crystal clear to me.

Questions for you PR:

At what age do you think it is reasonable for a man to be both Owner and GM of a $800M franchise in a hyper competitive industry? 81? 84? 90?

Why is it better for Raider fans, the Raider team, and Raider management to delay the hiring of executive support?

12:29 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

RE: Lions. Perhaps, but Matt Millen was particularly bad, hence the extra effort.

Our management has been equal to, or worse than Millen's tenure.

And the Billboard guy didn't spend just his money. He collected money from other die hard Raiders fans across the country, maybe around the world.

It's not like there are just a few rogue fans that share the opinions laid out here.

And no one is calling for Davis’ public flogging. That’s a little melodramatic.

So, despite some wild accusations posted here, stating that Al Davis has mismanaged the team to its current failures is hardly bashing the man.

I’m still waiting for Davis to keep his 2008 promise to hire executive help.

I'm afraid it's gonna be a long pre-season.

12:51 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

"I have and we have tried several different tactics to balance the scales but their not having it...So be it...Pearls have no value to swine...

I don't ride saddled "DeadHorse"s and I'm tired of wasting all that ammo shooting them down..."

Everything you do on here is a calculated tactic? Are you having flasback problems?

You've been riding that "deadhorse" for 2 months now, step off.

By the way Waste...those ain't pearls, They're imitations, you have been fooled AGAIN.

JONES

1:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would like to comment on what NYRaider said about the guy putting up the billboard, and how he is not alone in his thoughts about Al Davis running the show. I usually make it out to one home game per year. In 2009, I was in attendance for the Monday Night season opener against the Chargers. Usually about two hours prior to kickoff, I like to walk around the parking lot of the HOT, socializing with other Raider fans, trash talking about our opponents, drinking beer, eating great food, etc. Last year when I was taking my pre-game walk around the parking lot, there was alot of talk about Al Davis and how he is running the team. I think it is safe to say that there is a definite age divide when it comes to views on Davis. Pretty much anyone under the age of 40 wanted Davis run out of town on the first train headed out of Oakland. Those over the age of 40, while frustrated, they wanted Davis around, but they conceded that he definitely needed the extra help in the front office. The younger Raider crowd sees Davis as a feeble old man, holding the team back, out of touch with the modern game of NFL football, and basically the dengenerate old crypt keeper sitting up in the owner's box. Keep in mind, this younger generation did not get to enjoy the three Super Bowl wins that the Raiders acheived in the late 70's and early 80's. All they have known is losing, and plenty of it, over the course of the last 20 years. To me, it was fascinating talking Davis with all of these people. I would say about 85% of the people I talked to that night in the HOT parking lot wanted Davis gone. He was definitely the most unpopular Raider that night amongst the Raider faithful (keep in mind this was before JaMarcus stunk up the 2009 season). As for me, I am 34 years old, and while I have great memories of the Raiders beating the Redskins on January 22nd, 1984, I also think it is time for a paint job, and a fresh face to begin running this organization. When the sad day comes that Al Davis passes on, I will be sad for his passing, will mourn his wonderful football career, but at the same time, I will be excited and enthusiastic about someone else taking over my beloved Raiders. And that is my two cents.


Sarasota Raider

2:52 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Very well said, Sarasota.

3:15 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Panty said,


"How the hell am I or anyone else stopping you from being positive-n-hopeful as you claim on your own damn board..."
***********************************


I know this question was posed to RT, but this is my 2 cents.

1) Breaking up successful Gruden/Allen team on verge of winning it all.

2) Mostly horrible draft picks year after year.

3) Seven straight seasons of record setting losing.

Just a few things that keep me from being positive,and hopeful.

3:23 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

I'm still wondering, when did I "bash" the "old man."

Since that seems to be the whole premise, I'd like an example.

7:17 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Rolando McClain perfectly reads Campbell pass to McFadden in 7-7, picks it in stride, goes the other way.

Rolando McClain anticipates Campbell swing right and nearly picks it.


This kid is learning very fast and anticipate well...He is going to become a leading force in our new "D"...


Sarasota Raider...

You broke it down fairly honestly and than stated your age and your opinion...I liked that...

My self I'm 60 this season and "H" and "BR" aren't far off so we are definitely of the older group who grew up with this franchise threw it all and learned to have deep respect for the one who brought us all those wonderful memories...It pains us deeply to see how unfaithful some of the younger fan base has become and disrespectful too...So let me give you my opinion as to why there is such a difference in us....

In our time the Raiders were hated by the outsiders but dearly loved by the locals...It showed everywhere...The more "HateMail" the team earned from the outside the more the town of Oakland embraced them...Than Mr Davis made the decision to move his franchise south and all that changed...The locals started a "Bashin" campaign and as it gained steam it was picked up my the outsiders and promoted nationally...Than Marcus Allan did his infamous "Crying" spell on Monday Night Football accusing Mr Davis of restricting Art Shell from playing him...

Rather than investigating the situation intelligently and realizing his career was being prolonged as the 3rd dn back -w- the likes of "Bo" and before that Eric Dickerson playing 1st-n-2nd dns...The "Mediot"s took his accusations and ran with them...

Around this same time Mr Davis was inducted into the "HOF" but the bashin gained force and continued and spread to the LA markets as well even bashin the fans in attendance...Now Mr Davis was also involved in litigation with the NFL over crap they had done and he won but the NFL took it upon themselves to help promote the ill feelings against Mr Davis...

No longer was the "Evilness" of the Raiders/Davis presented in a positive light...It was now all derogatory and by design a propaganda campaign to slaughter Mr Davis in the younger public eye...

Until these past few seasons of losing it failed to gain a stronghold in the Raider Nation but with the losses came the depression and apparently the "Escape Goat" was needed so thus we have this huge division today...

We grew up honoring the man while the younger grew up hearing how he was being dishonored....It eventually infested the younger hearts and came out publicly as those mouths spoke/wrote from what was inside...

Now some here after carrying that campaign to the fullest dare to ask..."Where did we bash"...Damn...The record these past few seasons is stupendous...Now am I to believe that they don't know it's bashin..Not likely because we have been her in force explaining the reality of what they were/are doing...However the #'s of us has dwindled because quite frankly who the hell wants to be in the middle of this crap...

It really has become ridicules...As I troll around I don't see it holding on the way it has here...The propaganda campaign on this board has been ruthless to the extreme and now refuses to die as all those old "DeadHorse"s are re-saddled and sent out again and again...

There only remains 3-4 positive fans on this entire board with an occasional drive-by like yourself...I enjoyed you honest appraisal even if I don't look forward to someone else at the helm as you do...

PantyRaider...Show Some Respect Is All We Have Asked!!!/_

8:55 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Examples, not accusations, please.

9:07 PM  
Anonymous JONES said...

Maybe he has you confused RT.

Al Davis is a Great Raider, just comes the time when the fighter loses that edge. For whatever reasons, Al doesn't have that anymore. Nothing to be ashamed of at his age, the important part is, what is best for the team, the fans.

Being able to recognize that point and time is the what is needed. Many fans think we saw that point and time long ago, the question is, why has it taken so long for the Org to recognize this, if they have in fact done that?

JONES

9:08 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raider00...

That was in reply to what "RT" posted to us...He said our not accepting his view was stopping him from being hopeful/positive...

I questioned how the hell does anything I say stop him from posting positive with hope...

Hell...I have been attacked repeatedly but it hasn't dampened my spirits to speaking my heart which is a positive outlook of my Raider organization and ownership...I'm tired of having to constantly defend it against all those re-saddled "DeadHorse"s but hay!...That old Marlin Model 1895 "45-70" has plenty of "Knock-Down" power and it catches those stanky bastards in stride and takes their heads off...

"CJ"...

All those "DeadHorse"s were not of your making but I listed them together as the examples...Your stance has not always been as positive as now so I appreciate the softening of your position and am not trying to provoke any further animosity towards you in that regard...

As for the age there just isn't one...Ya know there is a reason why the law legislates against discrimination because of age...Not all mature at the same rate nor do they lose their mental stability at the same rate either...

I have WWII friends who have great mental capacity even in their "90"s...Some say it's a shame because their bodies are no longer able to bare the load but their minds and hearts are so full of tech and so eager to do things with it that they scarcely sleep as they burn the candle at both ends...Insomnia works in their favor...

It takes time to gain such knowledge and the wisdom to put it to good use...Than we pass on and it dies while another has to play "Catch-Up" with the foundation we laid....I'm worried about who carries on that which the "OldMan" leaves behind...Who has had time to amass all that he now knows...And who will be humble enough to draw upon his ways instead of their own self motivated hearts...

Now I don't agree with several of your views but they are not presented as derogatory towards the "OldMan"...No "HateMail"...No disrespect noted...So I'm kool with that...

PantyRaider...The "OldMan" Has Earned That Respect!!!/_

9:25 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

"That was in reply to what "RT" posted to us...He said our not accepting his view was stopping him from being hopeful/positive..."

Flat out fabrication. I am hopeful. That has nothing to do with being asked to retrofit failure with success, and re-imagining flailing as a plan.

Yet again, I ask: When did I "bash" the "old man?"

9:28 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

You have all the examples necessary listed threw out this board...The "DeadHorse"s are all there for all to see...I'm just shootin baby and not engaging anymore into your ridicules long drawn out futility debates which have no fundamental purpose nor do they go anywhere...There is no solution nor is there any realistic exchange with evidence in support from anything you post recently in that regard...Just more and more twisted "Rubber Walls" of your making...

9:31 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In other words, you don't have a single example to back up your most frequent accusation.

9:34 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT" said...

I guarantee you that if you stopped blaming Gruden, quit trying to tell me that DHB was a smart pick, quit trying to convince me that the 2008 season was some sort of building block when it was an absolute grease fire, hollering at me for suggesting what Davis and Madden both acknowledged is needed (more executive help), on and on...

If you would just stop with this nonsense, you'd be surprised at how hopeful some of us might sound.

Trust me H, the level of negativity is directly proportional to the level of excuse making. The reason it seems like "total negativity" is because some of us are continually asked to accept a positive spin on negative events, prompting us to state a negative case. Stop the spin, stop the excuses and, trust me, the negative air will clear.

9:36 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

NO...In other words I'm not going to engage you in your damn stupid pissing contest any further as you deny everything 2 seconds after you post it while moving your damn "Rubber Walls"...I have posted the examples repeatedly as you employ some political maneuvering tactic to avoid addressing anything...

You post it and than don't own it like a man...You make lying accusations against those who disagree with you and than don't have the decency to post one damn possible example of how the hell we're responsible for that crap...

NO..Now the burden is on you...Establish the evidence to save your damn stupid "DeadHorse"s and support your lying accusations against us...

9:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Give it up PantyRaider. God your diatribe grows old.

9:51 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Anno 9:51 PM....

Good...I'm definitely a "Diehard" Raider fan who won't back-off one damn iota from assaulting the unfounded lying assaults against my beloved team/ownership...

PantyRaider...Damn Glad You Got To Read me!!!/_

9:56 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

PR -

How about some direct answers to direct questions. All I'm asking for is your honest opinions.

Once again, PR:

At what age do you think it is reasonable for a man to be both Owner and GM of a $800M franchise in a hyper competitive industry? 81? 84? 90?

Why is it better for Raider fans, the Raider team, and Raider management to delay the hiring of executive support?

9:57 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Thought so.

9:58 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Pantyraider can't answer those questions because he is a freakin idiot. He is worse than a crooked politician on here the way he dodges the questions and the facts.

10:14 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

I gave you my honest opinion...There is NO established age cut-off point that applies to everyone...Same goes for the "kings of the Earth" who have allot more on them than any NFL franchise with less than 100 total employees on record...

Al Davis will delegate out the amount of responsibility he desires as he desires to do it and I'm NOT going to engage in some propaganda campaign to establish some foolish parameters as to how or when that has to happen...

In Short...I will continue to trust in him just as I have done in the past until such time that he has removed himself from the face of the franchise...In death or by his decree...

As for what's better for the fans...They should learn the meaning of the words "Respect-n-Honor"..."Trust-n-Faith"..."Commitment-n-Loyalty"...Instead of "Blame-n-Scape-Goats"...

In short define the meaning of "Raider Luv"...

I know what it means to me...Unyielding Commitment-n-Servitude to my beloved Raiders and how that extends to the fans who have/show the same "Fanaticism" as I hold dear...That's what a "Fan" is...A "Fanatic" and Raider Fans were always known as "DieHards" and that's damn sure what I am...No 7 season span of futility will change that in my heart nor will any "Negative Campaign" of unfounded propaganda ever sway the devotion of my heart in the least...

And remember it is written...

"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks"...So by this you damn sure know my heart...

PantyRaider...Spoken From The Heart Of The Heart!!!/_

11:14 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

I also addressed that question earlier with this post in reply to you...Maybe you missed it...Here it is again regarding why it's good for the organization that Mr Davis remain...


It takes time to gain such knowledge and the wisdom to put it to good use...Than we pass on and it dies while another has to play "Catch-Up" with the foundation we laid....I'm worried about who carries on that which the "OldMan" leaves behind...Who has had time to amass all that he now knows...And who will be humble enough to draw upon his ways instead of their own self motivated hearts...

"BR" posted it and I followed it up...Speculations that now "HC" Cable is in training as a Raider "GM" to work with Al's son and Hue may be in training as the future "HC" who can work well under them...It's my hope that is the case but aside from a few comments from Cable about his asking Al to teach him that end of the business and his emphatic response that "This Is Definitely My Team Now" while showing signs of working well together I have NO prof...Just pure speculations and so state it as such...

But I believe Cable has shown us his heart...Not everything has translated into a positive but he wont give up...He learns from it/owns it and goes on...I can damn well respect that in a man...

PantyRaider...We Will have Those Answers In Time!!!/_

11:30 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Anno 10:14 PM...

Why don't you embrace a name and post what's in your heart instead of worrying your little mind about what I can do...I am who I am and will be who I be...Now who are you...

Don't hide yourself behind that keyboard...The "Men-in-Black" were never shy about playing "SmashMouth" in the past....Why would you be now...Unless of course your just an extension of some sickass liar who is now trying to post Incognito...

Take a name to separate yourself...

PantyRaider...More To Follow!!!/_

11:39 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

In answer to another question you posted...

Not sure why you are directing the "Deadhorse" list my way.

Because of this....

Please explain PR or better yet, name 1 negative BS post and why you believe it doesn't have any merit.

Thus all those "DeadHorse"s that have scampered around on this board while you were involved in a few but not all...You never tried to accuse Mr Davis of "Sabotage"(Piracy) for one...

Now as I said there are a few area's where we will disagree...Like limiting the evaluation to a 7 yr span...

Why would you be so happy to do that...Why would you want to use a 7 yr span of disappointments to define your favorite team...I sure as hell don't...That was something the damn "Mediot"s did in order to paint a picture of us being the worst in history in direct opposition to Mr Davis' slogan of "Team of the Decades" and denial of us being the winningest team in NFL history...

I would think that an evaluation based upon at least a decade or two or better yet the lifetime of that franchise would be a much better way to point to the best and worst teams in the history of the NFL...Now we are at the top of that list...

So I guess it all boils down to a difference in motive...My motive here being to promote the team I love in a realistic historical record from infancy and even if I sway from that and take it according to any one decade in NFL history we are still far from the worst...I will wager that if you look at any decade sense our birth in 1960 you will get an entirely different picture of this franchise and Mr Davis in general...

For instance the beginning of the last decade we were "AFCW Champs" 3 yrs running and made it all the way to the "SB"..."AFC Champs"...

So now please explain why the persistence in using a 7 yr span to define us...I don't understand that persistence in the least...

PantyRaider...One Of The Best In History And On Our Way back!!!!/_

2:29 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Here is a must see Vid of Atkinson & Tatum...This is the 1976 story of these two and how they became labeled as the "Criminal Element" by the "Squeelers" and how that spread throwout the league....This is right along with what I was discussing with Sarasota Raider on this thread....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuP0Cldbn10&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aT6he8ISpc&feature=related

Than here is one showing why I luv Mr Davis so much and would follow him and his team off the edge of the world...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhnIKKUXjcM&feature=related

PantyRaider...Yah!!!...Bring It On!!!/_

The New Decade!!!...

7:41 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Got it PR. I got what I expected which was a rambling answer that makes my head hurt.

What you have failed to come to grips with is what I alluded to earlier ...

it doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" proposition.

By that I mean, it doesn't have to be a choice between:

(1) Davis wearing the hats of both owner and GM

or

(2) Davis wearing no hats

My view is that Davis, as the owner, should be involved with the franchise he owns BUT he should get executive support in the best interest of the franchise, the fans, and the team's success.

I'm not backing down from this opinion and we will need to cordially, respectfully agree to disagree.

10:47 AM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

"So now please explain why the persistence in using a 7 yr span to define us...I don't understand that persistence in the least..."

I believe it is logical and fair to judge a team and the "state of the nation" by what has transpired in the most recent years.

We are not talking about just last season, 1 bad year or 2, a few bad years with a few decent years ...

Winning 5 or less games every year for the past 7 years is a flashing red light to fix what is broken.

If you want to be fair and factual, this team has performed below expectations since moving back to Oakland in 1995 excluding 3 seasons out of 15 seasons.

When referencing the past 7 years, most posters are using this as a call for corrective action.

Deal with it.

10:59 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

In fact, many of us have tried to talk about more than the past seven years. We tried to celebrate the Gruden era. And we were told that it wasn't that great, and that it was in fact responsible for our subsequent crashing and burning.

Don't tell me I only talk about the past seven years. I've tried to embrace and celebrate our ONLY period of true success in the past FIFTEEN years, only to hear that period dismissed and even libeled.

I've heard the names Gruden, Allen, Gannon and Brown trashed.

The same people who brag that they love Al Davis more than I do suggest that his only period of success in the past 15 years wasn't all that successful, and that the leaders he hired and acquired during that period are, in fact, losers or something close to that.

As they say, with friends like that...

12:22 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Davis conceded he needed help in 2008. Madden concurred soon after. With each passing year (Davis is now 81), the need grows stronger.

Like Calico Jack (and others), I will not waver from my opinion on this matter.

Even if the Raiders show a burst in the next year or two, Davis should be thinking about a contingency plan ASAP. Otherwise, short-term success (should that actually happen) may be for naught.

I'm no spring chicken (although not as long in the tooth as some here). I'd like to see the Raiders dominate the NFL again in my lifetime. The last decade went by in a flash, and aside from the Gruden era (which success has been brought into doubt), it's been since the early/mid 80's.

That's a long time, and makes me pause why anyone could possibly still think of the Raiders as the team of the decades.

So, here's to the Raiders dropping some coin to spruce up the owner's luxury box, in hopes that he will use it in the tradition of Raider pride while others tend to his business.

Now that Camp and preseason is upon us, we will need timely and critical decisions regarding injuries, roster moves, player acquisitions, etc.

2:15 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Regardless of the team's record, Davis needed to hire executive support yesterday, last year, the year before that, 3 years ago.

How is it a bad thing to hire a capable executive (at any level) to support Davis, to support Cable, to support the organization? What exactly is the downside to having another set of qualified ears & eyes helping to bolster the franchise's goals?

Some on this board will act like if the team improves this season that it proves we don't need to hire an executive. That couldn't be further from the truth.

When Hue Jackson was hired to help support Cable, it was praised by most fans. How is it any different if Davis hires Mr. X to support himself, Cable, and the franchise?

9:01 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This is a slogan which has been perpetrated on this board repeatedly and again now so I want to address it and apply it evenly instead of letting it be used exclusively as a means to smite the "OldMan"...

"Your only as good as your last game...It's what you have done lately that counts"...

While I agree I make exceptions for the "OldMan" who has built up tremendous collateral...Karma...From his past accomplishments and I don't believe the past 7 seasons are enough to destroy the favor he has earned...It's his by right of ownership...Now that's respect baby!!..

Non the less let's look at the other "DeadHorse"s and apply the same practice to them...Now I know damn well your going to give resistance on this one...

Marcus Allan...Was a great "RB" for us and helped us secure a "V" in that "SB" against the "Skins" but than he shit on this team...The Coaches...The ownership -n- the fans with his continued cancer act in the locker room and his crying antics on MondayNight Football....Than if that wasn't enough he refused to enter the "HOF" as a Raider...

"What have you done for me lately....Not a damn bit of good and I continue to hold it against you Bitch!!!...

Now comes to Gruden who helped clear the air from that cancer that had taken over the team which was an aftermath of the Allan charades amongst others who joined in...Than he brings in Willie Shaw to turn the "D" around and it was good...Had a weakness against the "TE" over the middle for those teams who had great "TE" play but he took things away and that's what a "D" is designed to do...

We were ranked at #5 -n- #10 in total "D" 98-99 under Shaw...When Gruden ran the "DC" after he got too much of the credit and popularity that "D" fell to #17 -n- #18 the following 2 seasons...It came back up to #11 the yr after Gruden left...

Now a look at his "O"s...
#18-"98"...
#5-"99"...
#6-"00"...
#7-"01"...

Without Gruden #1 "02"...

So it was good with some crap mixed in...NOT perfect by any stretch of the imagination...But in the end what do we get out of the bastard...

He shit in the middle of his contract and was entertaining other jobs while as the players claimed he laid down on that team the last month of the season...He basically forced a trade by being a "DeadHorse" coach in the off season...The job that he left unfinished produced better results the year after his departure in Calihan's hand with the same toys on the field....

Your only as good as your last act...I hold that against you ya damn Bastard!!!...I will NOT jump on some damn Gruden banner wagon being pulled by Mules...

9:58 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Bruce Allan...9 seasons as "GM" -w- the Raiders..."96"-"04" I believe...He was with the likes of White/Bugle/Gruden/Calihan/Turner as "HC"s...I think that's enough said there...He opted to join Gruden in "TB" so departed the Raiders...Nothing bad noted at the time...His total record speaks for itself...

Lombardi...8 seasons -w- the Raiders..."98"-"06" I believe...He was -w- Gruden/Calihan/Turner/Shell II as "HC"s and became known as the "Mole" instigating the "Paranoia Syndrome"...His record speaks for it self...Enough said...

Now in the light of all of this just why in the hell am I suppose to be all in a frenzy trying to find the next "Mole" to influence my beloved Raiders...

NO THANKS...Mr Davis wants to go it alone for the time being and I'm totally down with that...He is getting whatever help he deans necessary at the moment and remember he has his son in that front office with him and other football minds around him including Madden and other former players...Some even turned executive...It also appears that Cable is taking an interest in those responsibilities and has a good working relationship with Mr Davis...

Some of you seem to think quantity and need it now rather than quality and need to get it right...I'm of the 2nd position here...It's far more important that we get it right this time than to make some hurried hasty decision out of perceived need that sends us deeper into the dungeon for seasons to come...

As "CJ" recently pointed out we cheered the bringing in of Hue to assist Cable...Yes we did/do...It was a quality move of need not just a need fulfilled when the need 1st presented itself last season or before...It was far better to wait for the availability of the right guy for the job...Dad that job been filled with some scrub we wouldn't have Hue running around that field exciting all those players and the fans today...

NO THANKS....I for one do as I preach and trust in the "OldMan" who knows a damn site more than any poster on some fan board...

So in other words...My Marlin Model 1895 "45-70" is cocked and I just shot that damn dumb "DeadHorse" in the eye removing the entire backside of it's scull and it ain't galloping past my damn volatile ass...

So here's "Shit in your eyes"..."RoadApples" coming back at'cha!!!...

Smounch!!..OOOoo!...That's gota hurt!!!...

PantyRaider...Another One Bites The Dust!!!/_

9:59 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Now that Camp and preseason is upon us, we will need timely and critical decisions regarding injuries, roster moves, player acquisitions, etc.

Now look around...That is exactly what "H" -n- Myself have been doing with "CJ" joining in a little...

Why don't you stop trying to throw saddles on those "DeadHorse"s and try concentrating on the season at hand...And as our "HC" Cable said...That's behind us and what's in front of us is an opportunity to win a trip to the "PO"s...

10:04 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Now this "Mediot" post has some tremendous details that inspire hope for the new season...This was a joy to read and I can't just pick out pieces that are good and apply...It's all too good referring to several of our young and new players...A must read...

http://www.ibabuzz.com/oaklandraiders/2010/08/01/mcfadden-wants-to-get-beyond-hype/

Veldheer playing C for third team offense....Not sure what to make of that if anything at all but interesting so I posted it...

PantyRaider...Many Many Positives But The "Negs" Still Hang-On...Work In Progress!!!/_

10:23 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

OH!...My bad...I misread "decisions" as "Discussions"...Oh! Well!...At any rate we be having those discussions...

PantyRaider...Spell-Checker Helps But Not When I read!!!/_

10:28 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Lions sign LB Isaiah Ekejiuba

"ST"s standout finds new home...



Here are some alternative Raider blogs sites that may give you a better perspective of what fans of the Raider Nation are thinking these days...Not much "Doom-n-Gloom" in site...So why is it so prevalent on this board...

http://tfdssports.com/

http://www.silverandblackpride.com/

http://www.raidersgab.com/

http://justblogbaby.com/

http://www.raiderslocker.com/

http://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/teams/Oakland_Raiders/43

Just something I noticed as I troll around the net looking at Raider news...

Now what up with your bad "RT"...Looks to me your beating that old "Doom-n-Gloom" drum all alone....

PantyRaider...Oh!...What A Joy Sippin All That Raider Brew!!!/_

11:48 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

Anyone else buying the "mole" theory as being responsible for 25 years of losing?

4:40 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

“Matt Millen was particularly bad”.

The Detroit Kittens haven’t done squat the since a guy named Wayne Fontes. In about fifty years their highlights consist of a guy named Barry Sanders and about five seasons. But, if the comparison is the Lions, don’t cherry pick. I’m sure Lions fans would trade their last 50 years for ours. Their trophy case for ours and their Hall of Famers for ours over the last 50 years.

As for the billboard campaign, well then, I’m happy all those people had the extra change lying around to do it. But, you still didn’t answer the question, are we folks on the optimist side of the fence any less Raider fans either? I answered your question.

Calico,

We probably agree more than disagree. I too think the last seven years sucked. I also believe Al Davis should hire some more executive help. But, since I have no direct control there I just look for positive things to accentuate. Keeps my interest up.

On a more positive note, Sunday morning, Grandson of H and I had about five hours of good quality alone time. So we took a stroll in the 95 degree local weather then watched The Incredibles and the 1980 season America’s game.

Not sure how much he understood at 3 ½ months, but he seemed interested and I figure you’re never too young to get started.

H

5:20 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

Your correct...Never too young to start...

As an example there was a kid back in Utah while I was at USU who followed me around a bit with my son who was only 5 at the time...His family basically shunned all responsibility for him so we were like family to him...One season is all I saw of him but that was 1979 and it instilled enough in his heart that years later when we crossed paths again I was delighted to find that he was an avid Raider fan living in Seattle...Now how kool was that...So you just never know when your affecting someone in a positive way....or...In the case of some negativity on this board...In a very negative way...

With so much to be positive about this season I find it very difficult to understand why the negative issues of these "DeadHorse"s keep getting re-saddled and sent out again and again...Unless it is a negative campaign with a distinct purpose of intent...

All other Raiders Fan boards have moved well beyond such crap but this one board continues to linger in the muck-n-mire of despair...I wonder why...

Any Answers "RT"...

Oh! Ya! I forgot...We don't accept your belligerence and thus restrict you from posting positive/hopeful...



What "MOLE" Theroy is that "NYR"...

Is this another one of your childish ignorant attempts to twist something out of nothing...

How about addressing one single issue with legitimate evidence to back it up...To legitimize it...But of course you can't because there is no legitimate evidence that can be noted...Just more illegitimate hypothetical crap as in "RoadApple"s..."Mediot" excrement or disgruntled player vomit or ignorant fan nonsense....Absolutely nothing with any meat to it...NOTHING...

PantyRaider...Just like with Schultz..."You Know NO-THING"!!!/_

5:39 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

To answer your question, no. I firmly believe everyone on this board is diehard to the core.

But, unfortunately, we have been reduced to Lions' status in the 90's and 00's. It's just a matter of how to process that information. Should we face it head on and challenge those demons, or should we live in the past and hope for the best?

PR -

To answer your question, you want to blame everyone but the person in charge.

Have you ever heard the saying, "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."

I'm nobody's fool! It's got nothing to do with respecting the man. I'm a huge fan. I look forward to the proud moment I can say Al Davis did the right thing. He swallowed his ego and brought in the help he desperately needs (and now the Raiders appear back on course).

7:10 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

PantyRaider, you have become the biggest negative influence on this board, all the while bemoaning the negativity. Do you see the irony?

And I repeat what I said earlier: "In fact, many of us have tried to talk about more than the past seven years. We tried to celebrate the Gruden era. And we were told that it wasn't that great, and that it was in fact responsible for our subsequent crashing and burning.

Don't tell me I only talk about the past seven years. I've tried to embrace and celebrate our ONLY period of true success in the past FIFTEEN years, only to hear that period dismissed and even libeled.

I've heard the names Gruden, Allen, Gannon and Brown trashed.

The same people who brag that they love Al Davis more than I do suggest that his only period of success in the past 15 years wasn't all that successful, and that the leaders he hired and acquired during that period are, in fact, losers or something close to that."

The real negativity comes from people who seemingly excuse and embrace failure, and who downplay and dismiss success, and who demand that the rest of us do it as well.

It's false optimism, or negativity in disguise.

7:40 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

“25 Years of loosing”??????????

It’s time we took this myth head on:

2009 – 25 = 1984

So beginning with the 1984 Season (the season AFTER we won our last Super Bowl) we have a combined record of 195 – 220. Pretty dismal, no argument.

But if you take out the last seven years everyone is harping on we have from 1984 – 2002 a record of 166 – 137. A winning percentage of .548. Not spectacular, not up to our normal standards, but hardly loosing.

During that stretch we finished with a .500 or better record 12 times (five seasons of 8-8), and first in the division 5 times. In 1984 the west division was so strong we finished 3rd with an 11-5 record.

If you take Gruden’s time out it’s still a 117 – 106 (.525). Still not spectacular, still not our normal expectations, but hardly loosing.

So, before the last seven years and after the last Super Bowl victory (19 years) we won a measly 166 games, lose a massive 137. An average season of 9 – 7.

We won our division five times (again not our normal expectations) and played in multiple AFC Championship games and made the playoffs in 1984, 1985, 1990, 1991, 1993, 2000, 2001, 2002. Again, not our normal expectations, but to declare 25 years of loosing and compare us to the Lions is ludicrous.

During that same 19 year stretch the Lions were 124 – 178 (.411), and through last season they are 152 – 262 (.367).

Beginning with the 1984 season they are averaging 10 losses a year and they actually played in an NFC Championship game, so imagine how much they sucked the rest of the time. They are only one win removed from 9 consecutive seasons of double digit losses.

I’ll go with seven years of sucking, but show some perspective.

And, yes I know my math provided 26 years (I’m a math minor, I know these things), but in 1984 we finished 3rd in the division.

Now, when folks start with “stats are for losers”, those are strictly wins and losses.

Maybe when we get back to winning on a consistent basis we’ll appreciate it more.

All stats courtesy of CBS sports web site (don’t want people thinking I made it all up).

H

8:22 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

By the way. I did not say it wasn't that great. I said it was very good but didn't rise to the level of great because it wasn't sustained and there were no Super Bowl championships.

I didn't "tell" you it wasn't that great. I said it was my opinion. My inteperation of "great" is different from yours.

I've been "told" lots of things too.

H

8:34 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

I stand corrected, 25 years of mediocrity, and only the last seven a complete disaster.

There. Is that better?

That's still a long stretch, more than half my lifetime. While it's difficult to imagine going the next 25 years of failing to produce another dominant team, it's entirely possible based on the last 25 years... particularly for those who may discount the Gruden years as sending the team in its current losing direction.

8:46 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

H, by your definition, the Raiders haven't been great for more than a quarter century.

But at least we're better than the Lions, right?

Anyhow, there are others here who speak more stridently against the Gruden era. You, at least, haven't portrayed it as some loser-riddled period that is responsible for our subsequent downfall.

I keep hearing about how all I want to talk about is the past seven years. Not true. I've talked about the years before that, the Gruden years, only to hear them trashed.

Those who claim to be positive speak negatively about our only positive results in 15 years. Those who claim to love Al Davis more than me say that Al Davis hasn't tasted greatness in more than a quarter of a century.

Isn't the irony getting to you yet?

8:46 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

I didn’t compare the Raiders to the Lions. NYRaider did so talk to him about that. And, he also gave the “25 years of losing” statement. I took umbrage to the comparisons. Go read his first then read mine in context.

As for the Gruden era I remember a while back saying we had won more division championships during the decade than any team in the division. Since then the Dolts have surpassed that, but we still have won more division championships than the Chefs or the Geldings. Also, we went to more Super Bowls than all the teams in the division combined. But, I was told I was living in the past by the negative side of the fence and to let it go.

Now, when I don’t say how “Great” Gruden was I’m wrong again?????? Great is impressively large, large in number, lasting a long time. Good is of a high quality or standard.

“Those who claim to be positive speak negatively about our only positive results in 15 years.”

Now, please explain so I may understand how the words “Very Good” are not positive. How are they negative? So, if we go 10-6 this season is that “Great”, “Very Good” or just “Good.” Are we now defining greatness down.

Look at all the years we made the playoffs since 1983, we must have been “Great” then too. And while we are at it, give me a time frame to deal with here, is it 25 years of loosing,15 years of loosing or seven years of sucking. Maybe we should just go with the last 12.4 seasons. I can hit a moving target, but it’s a little more difficult.


So, if Gruden was great, well then we had some great times during the 25 years of loosing NYRaider is referring to.

As for my definition of “great”. Yes, we were great 1963-1983, we were pretty good 1984-2002 and we’ve sucked since then. Yet, I remain positive and upbeat about the upcoming season.

H

10:19 AM  
Blogger H said...

Also, no irony here. Very good IS a positive.

H

10:21 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...

That's just your spin on it...And I'm glad I'm the biggest something...But I asked why is this board the biggest crier...And by the way did you see all my posts regarding the current roster and the coaches and the current training camp...Pretty damn positive wouldn't ya think..So now where is yours...You haven't commented on a single damn point that has been posted...Like how about the #8 pick being signed before 29 other 1st rd selections...24th was the closest to him...Where is your praise for that one...

And refresh my memory but when did you give Mr Davis any credit for the "V"s at the beginning of this the last decade...All I saw was Gruden/Allan being pimped as the greatest and "Shell Shock" when we also listed some of their failings...They weren't perfect now were they...They did have some short comings now right...Or are you so damn committed to Gruden that you can't stand to admit that he had his failings and several of them threw time...He was fired after all from "TB" was he not...

You love to point out any and every presumed failure of Mr Davis but display animosity if anything is said derogatory about your little poster child...Like I said...Pimp the greatness of Gruden/Allan and bash the greatness of the Raiders/Davis...

Now I have never heard Brown or Gannon trashed at all...I heard some crap about him wanting to help the team and he was told to stay out of it by Hernandez or what ever his name is but I have never heard of Gannon being trashed ever...He was the one who made it all work and the moment he went down the wheels came off...Brown is a "HOF"er in my mind so why the hell would he be trashed...Because he got older and lost his ability to play...That happens to everyone...He was an honorable man as a Raider...

PantyRaider...Cherished Moments Don't Die...Painful Ones Should!!!/_

10:31 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"NYR"...

What will you say if the Raiders are now back on course but Al is still the man without any front-man casting a shadow...Will you give it up for the "OldMan"...

You don't have to say now we don't need help in the front office but will you praise Mr Davis for all that he has done to right his wayward ship...Now see...That is the real question here...

"H"....

Good math but it will just go over their heads because they just don't want to see it...It's not at all about having a legitimate conversation that's going anywhere it's about prolonging the false propaganda sessions and sending those "DeadHorse"s out again and again...Although I think I did see a slight correction by "NYR" but am not sure if I believe it...Not use to seeing such a thing...

My rifle is still loaded and that "45-70" will bring down a bear...

"CJ"...

I'm totally kool with acknowledging that we will disagree and leaving it at that...I don't get your stance anymore than you get mine...Opposite sides of the fence...But at least your man enough to admit if a mistake is made....Give an apology...Move on...And I can respect that in a man just as I'm beholding to it in myself...

I don't say Mr Davis can't use any help...I speculate he is getting as much as he needs at the moment and will address that issue as he sees fit in his own time...I can wait no problem...

Quality 1st is the most important issue for me...Take the time to get it right...Whoever it is may become the face of the franchise for many years to come and they need to have face and commitment and honor and loyalty and luv and be of the sort that intends to stick it out...Not just a job in the interim...

Your a corporate recruiter...How difficult is it to find someone who is truly committed and intends on staying to see a job threw to it's finish...

We now know Allan-n-Gruden were not of that sort...Gruden took a shit in the middle of his contract and didn't sign the extension when it was on the table...Allan bolted to follow him instead of showing loyalty to the team he was on...

PantyRaider...Just Like A Lifer...Few -n- Far Between!!!/_

10:32 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

H, you have to understand that I'm not just talking about you.

There have been numerous very negative statements made on this board about the Gruden period, about Gruden, about Bruce Allen, about Tim Brown, about Rich Gannon...That is a fact. These statements have been made by people who claim to be positive, but who seem to hate those who were instrumental in our only period of success in 15 years, the only period in which the Raiders have posted winning records, in the era of parity, no less.

I never said Gruden was great (so quit saying I said that, please). I'm not even sure that the Raiders were truly great during that period, although they were at least very close to it. But I am proud of that period, and I respect those who helped make it happen, and I will not denigrate our only period of success in FIFTEEN years just for the privilege of putting lipstick on a pig.

And regardless, by your definition, the Raiders haven't been great for a quarter century. That's for you to argue with everyone who demands that that we recognize the greatness of the Raiders.

10:37 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

Exactly which is why I post regarding decades or the life of the team...That's the only way that makes any sense to me and it's consistent and easy to follow for anyone...If we talk team history why would we do it any other way...

All this "Moving Target" crap is making my eyes cross...I just want to get a direct bead on a target and pull the trigger without wasting time -n- energy chasing that critter threw the briers....

The only purpose to chopping things up into smaller yearly segments is to paint a specific picture which in this case is to be the worst in history...Hell...Why don't we chop it some more and do partial segments of a season...Maybe the last 6 games of each year to compare to the last 6 games the other teams have played...I wonder who comes out on the short end that way...Just as stupid...

Or how about this one...We take that 7 seasons and show that we were at the bottom but steadily improving as we went from 1 to 5 wins while those other teams couldn't maintain any positive movements at all...ha! ha!...Now we got's em...

PantyRaider...Trying To Make Math Lie!!!/_

10:46 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The "Greatness Of The Raiders" is perpetual...Once it was there it's always there...The "Greatness of the Lions" never happened so thus is non existent today...

Or would you say the Roman empire was not a great empire...The Babylonians were not great either even if they were signified as the head of gold...Not to mention the Greeks...Why just look at them now bewildered in money problems and selling of their country to pay the debts...

PantyRaider...The "Greatness" Is A Matter Of History -n- Deserves To Be Preserved/Remembered/Embraced/Spoken Of To The Youth!!!/_

10:55 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Nice try.

Who are the ones falsely claiming that I only reference the past "seven" years?

Who are the ones trashing the years right before that, the Gruden period, whenever I talk about them?

Some of you are living in a fairy tale. In a fairy tale, the recent past is less relevant than the distant past.

For the rest of us, we reference the recent past more often than the distant past because IT'S MORE RELEVANT to what's happening NOW.

Using the fairy tale logic, if the Raiders were to run off a seven-year stretch of winning, the years of losing before that would be more relevant than the recent winning.

In 2017, you'd be talking about the losing period as more relevant than the past seven years of winning.

Your arguments don't stand the logic test. Stop selling pretzels.

11:00 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

PR -

I'm already crediting Al Davis for a sensible off-season and above-average draft, either through his own doing or his listening to the well-placed advise of others.

I will credit him further when he hires executive support.

None of the above changes my view of recent failures, which I also credit largely to Davis. That comes with the territory.

11:09 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Funny how those who claim to love Al Davis seem to hate his only recent period of success.

Hate Gruden. Hate Allen. Hate Gannon. Hate Brown. Suggesting that Gruden and Allen ran the team into the ground, causing our tailspin.

By extension, suggesting that Davis wasn't even instrumental in the makeup of that team, therefore denying him credit for the success.

All the while accusing others of being negative.

11:10 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

What the hell did he say...

"RT"...What are you smoking...That shits going to choke you to death...No fooling...That was about the hardest logic to follow that I have ever seen on this board...And we have seen some doozies but damn...I can't make heads or tails of that one...

Try it again because damn...That was really bad...

PantyRaider...Eyes Crossed -n- Heads A Spinning!!!/_

11:14 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"RT"...Stop twisting everything into what it ain't...

I failed to see anyone trash the Raiders success as a team...I did see and take part in exposing the failings of Gruden/Allan/Lambardi while with the Raiders and after with "TB" in direct response to your posting that they were greatly responsible for everything good of that time...NO...Gannon was more responsible for that than was Gruden or Allan and who was it that brought Gannon to the franchise...

Pantyraider...Get It Straight For Once!!!/_

11:22 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

This is what I posted so read it and quote it as it was...Untwisted with out lies...
-----------------------------------
Now comes to Gruden who helped clear the air from that cancer that had taken over the team which was an aftermath of the Allan charades amongst others who joined in...Than he brings in Willie Shaw to turn the "D" around and it was good...Had a weakness against the "TE" over the middle for those teams who had great "TE" play but he took things away and that's what a "D" is designed to do...

We were ranked at #5 -n- #10 in total "D" 98-99 under Shaw...When Gruden ran the "DC" after he got too much of the credit and popularity that "D" fell to #17 -n- #18 the following 2 seasons...It came back up to #11 the yr after Gruden left...

Now a look at his "O"s...
#18-"98"...
#5-"99"...
#6-"00"...
#7-"01"...

Without Gruden #1 "02"...

So it was good with some crap mixed in...NOT perfect by any stretch of the imagination...But in the end what do we get out of the bastard...

He shit in the middle of his contract and was entertaining other jobs while as the players claimed he laid down on that team the last month of the season...He basically forced a trade by being a "DeadHorse" coach in the off season...The job that he left unfinished produced better results the year after his departure in Calihan's hand with the same toys on the field....

Your only as good as your last act...I hold that against you ya damn Bastard!!!...I will NOT jump on some damn Gruden banner wagon being pulled by Mules...


PantyRaider...For The Record!!!/_

11:26 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

See See he spoke bad about Gruden...

yes I did about failing to honor his contract and laying down on the team as the players noted he did...

PantyRaider...Guilty As Charged!!!/_

11:29 AM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

I'll put it in simpler terms:

You harp on me for pointing out that the recent period of sustained losing is more relevant right now than past periods of winning.

In other words, you want me to focus on past winning while mired in losing.

Therefore, the next time we are mired in winning, shall I expect you to focus on past losing?

The answer, based on your logic, is yes.

11:31 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raiders' players must accept burden
March 27, 2002
IT'S NOBLE to take responsibility on one's own shoulders rather than shift it to someone else's. For the Raiders, says Tim Brown, it's not only noble, it's necessary.

They have to close the door on Jon Gruden and open it to Bill Callahan, and the sooner the better. The process, clearly, is in full swing, with tales now emerging of locker-room dissension in Gruden's final days and the harmony that supposedly will replace it.

Brown, however, is willing to take it a step further: With all the talk of coaches and their pluses and minuses, he told reporters at the Raiders' facility in Alameda yesterday, let's not lose track of another important factor:

"Whatever happens with Callahan this year, and however long he's here, won't be a reflection on him, it'll be a reflection on his players," Brown said. "And I like that; as a player, you have to like that. So from that standpoint, it's just a matter of us going out there and doing what we're supposed to do."

Not that the personality and stylistic differences between Gruden and Callahan weren't noticeable, even after only a couple of days of the first offseason workouts under the new coach.

Yes, Brown acknowledged, last season ended with significant (albeit unnamed) players who "just could not function with Gruden, no matter what was tried, no matter what was said to the players or what was said to the coach. . . . We had guys going into the game (saying), 'I'm gonna kill this guy.' " And no, there's no hint that players -- newcomers or holdovers -- are showing up this week in that frame of mind about Callahan, even though he, Brown said, "is probably even more intense than Gruden is. It just comes off in a totally different way."

When all the comparisons are done, however, Brown figures that the credit or blame for how the Raiders perform after Gruden's contentious exit should fall on the players.

It probably won't -- in some corners, Gruden will get credit for putting together the pieces of a champion or blame for sowing the seeds for collapse by creating the sideshow of his departure. In others, Callahan will be acclaimed as a genius for keeping the ball rolling, or derided as someone who couldn't sustain the momentum. And, of course, Al Davis will get hefty doses of it all.

11:40 AM  
Blogger nyraider said...

It’s amazing to me that with each added year of failure, the relevance of repeated failures never gains any traction.

Perhaps the most critical period in Raiders history is happening right before our eyes, but we're more or less told to ignore it.

I'm sure the auto industry would like to ignore their recent failures, and so would the financial sector.

IMO, Al should hire a team of experts to break down the failures over the past seven years, and help him modernize this franchise to its hyper-competitive industry. The days of operating the Raiders as a mom & pop business are quickly crashing down around him.

Why not examine it and learn from it, instead of pretending like it never happened or that it’s all fixed now.

11:40 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Whatever, Brown said. "Really, in my opinion, by Gruden leaving, it puts more pressure, so to speak, on the players," he said. "No one knows Callahan, no one knows what to expect from him -- well, we (players) know what to expect,

and that's all that matters. But how this will be looked on is (that) it's on us to keep things together, it's on us to make sure things roll the way they're supposed to."

The way they're supposed to roll, he pointed out, is into the Super Bowl. It's hard to argue that.

No matter how you stand on the "tuck rule" and its consequences, you can't argue that even at this early stage, there's not much separating the world- champion Patriots from the Raiders or the other AFC contenders. If taking the pressure off their new coach and placing it on themselves smooths the Raiders' path, the players ought to share Brown's outlook.

They do, he said -- as far as he knows. There is one person he'd like to hear that from in person, though.

"I think that with this team, Gruden leaving really directly affects only one guy, Rich Gannon," Brown said. "Obviously, he's the one that has to be very comfortable with the situation now, because we're going to be as good as he's going to be.

"So if he's not comfortable and he can't go out and perform, then it's really going to be a tough thing. So that's the guy I need to talk to, and that's the guy I want to know if he's OK, because if he's OK, then I think everything will be all right."

However, Brown hasn't spoken with that guy yet. "We've played phone tag, but I have not had the opportunity," Brown said. "I was hoping he'd be here (this week), but I'm sure I'll see him next week." Otherwise, Brown said, it's hard to find a reason the handoff from Gruden to Callahan should be fumbled.

"We have the same system, same everything going in, with a couple of new players that should really help us out," Brown said. "But the onus is really gonna be on us to go out and make sure that everything in the locker room is the way it's supposed to be, and when we go out on the field, things are the way they're supposed to be."

With no excuses, no matter how convenient they might be.

11:40 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

In other words, you want me to focus on past winning while mired in losing.

That's a lie...Show me...

11:42 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

I tell you to look at it and post about it now instead of all that "DeadHorse" crap of the past...

11:45 AM  
Blogger H said...

Take,

"I never said Gruden was great (so quit saying I said that, please). I'm not even sure that the Raiders were truly great during that period, although they were at least very close to it."

Well, someone did, 'cause I got called on the carpet for denigrating that time frame for saying it was very good.

And, yep, under greatness, the great period of the Raiders was 63-83. It was sustained, we dominated the West Division, only two losing seasons, three Lombardi Trophies, four trips to the SB. And, I believe, over half those years we played in the AFL/AFC Championship Game along with having the highest winning percentage in all professional sports.

The next 19 years were above average and the last seven sucked.

That's my analysis. I've been consistant throughout, and I stand by it.

H

11:50 AM  
Blogger H said...

NYRaider,

"Perhaps the most critical period in Raiders history is happening right before our eyes, but we're more or less told to ignore it."

Not there's another head scratcher. I'd like nothing better than to talk about the here and now.

But, when I do I get, what about DHB, what about Walker?

I'm told I'm ignoring 25 years of loosing.

Let's move on, I'm all for it.

H

11:55 AM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-01-10/sports/17471283_1_gruden-s-bucs-jon-gruden-chronicle-gruden

Just another about Gruden's side of things...

12:03 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"H"...

The way everything is twisted here is unreal...I don't get it...Even when I go back and re-post what I really said it still gets twisted all out of shape...

Now I posted hard evidence about the distasteful situation that had developed during the final month of Gruden's last season with the team and the aftermath of his leaving from the players standpoint...Bet that get's ignored or twisted too...

PantyRaider...Head Scratchers Galore!!!/_

12:09 PM  
Blogger H said...

For the here and now.

McClain hid out in the middle then leaped high and stretched out to intercept a Jason Campbell pass and later almost had another one knocking it to the ground.

The guy is known more for defending the run because he played in a run heavy conference on the number 2 run defense in the country. He's not coming off the field.

Seymour is having to take Lamarr Houston under his wing and school him on how to practice so he doesn't hurt offensive teammates when the pads go on.

Murphy, though, took an accidental knee to the head and has a mild concussion. He'll be held out a couple of days as a precaution. Schilens foot is sore, but otherwise is said to be OK. They are checking his shoes to see if a change can help.

H

12:10 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Raiders owner Al Davis admits it: He was wrong.

He should not have hired 31-year-old Lane Kiffin to coach his team last year, and he was wrong to think Kiffin would fall in line if warned sternly enough this year.

So four games into this season, Davis tried to make things right by firing Kiffin on Tuesday, saying it was "with cause" - as he accused Kiffin of being a "flat-out liar" who undermined players, coaches and Davis himself.

Davis then promoted offensive line coach Tom Cable to interim head coach. No other coaches are expected to be fired.

"I wanted to make it work, to be real honest," Davis said in a news conference at team headquarters in Alameda. "It was my belief that it could work. Maybe I didn't want to admit that I had made a mistake.

"I still thought there was hope he would still see the light."

That hope, Davis said, is why he didn't fire Kiffin during a turbulent offseason or in training camp, when Kiffin publicly criticized the way the organization did things.

Davis even sent Kiffin a three-page letter, dated Sept. 12, detailing his complaints and warning him to stop his "immature and destructive campaign."

"It didn't have anything to do with winning," Davis said. "It had to with personality. It's the first time I ever let anyone go based on what I call just being a flat-out liar."

12:16 PM  
Blogger nyraider said...

H -

"Let's move on, I'm all for it."

I am too, but are you reading the posts that are being placed rapid fire on this site?

I'll ignore them briefly and direct my attention to your request.

Therefore, I strongly recommend, and will continue to do so, that the Raiders search for and sign veteran help at WR.

Schilens status remains questionable, and I understand Murphy has been absent from practice.

J-Mac recently described Jacoby Ford as having the Ricky Dudley dropsies, and Nick Miller did nothing for the Raiders last year due to injury. He's no more now than he was last year, i.e., a walk-on rookie.

We went through this last year. Let's please stop the WR bleeding, and give Campbell a target he can rely on (besides our sure-to-be double-teamed star TE).

Al Davis is up to bat on this one.

12:21 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Willie Shaw Has Raiders Calm and Collected / Coordinator has transformed defense from near-worst to near-best
October 23, 1998

The architect of the third-ranked defense in the NFL wears out yellow pads of paper. David Shaw remembers his father sitting on the living-room couch at all hours, diagramming plays as he watched television.

These days, the diagrams spring to life every Sunday. The Raiders are 4-2 and riding a three-game winning streak, mostly because of Willie Shaw's resurgent defense.

Shaw's impact extends beyond strategic chatter -- beyond zone blitzes and stacked lines and quarterback-rattling pressure. He commands widespread respect in the locker room for the most fundamental of reasons.

So when head coach Jon Gruden hired Shaw as defensive coordinator, that was merely the first step. Gruden and owner Al Davis soon gave Shaw a loud voice in juggling the personnel on defense.

This probably traces to Willie Shaw's military background. He was an Air Force sergeant, serving two tours of duty in Vietnam. As an electronic instrument technician, he was based in Thailand and worked on fighter planes.

http://articles.sfgate.com/1998-10-23/sports/17735022_1_fighter-planes-willie-shaw-defense

12:23 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

The Rapid-fire is just the true history because during the Gruden period because we are being accused of speaking unreasonably about the man so here it is in real past print...

Except for the Al Davis one I stumbled on where he says how he was trying to get it to go well...Trying...

12:27 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

Moving on would be nice...I already have with 75% of the effort relating to the current roster...

If only those damn "DeadHorse"s would just stop trying to go galloping by...My trigger finger is getting tired and so is my right eye...Sota a blur...Not to mention that ringing sound in my ears...

PantyRaider...Anyone Want A Free Slightly Used Bloody Saddle...I left It lying On The Ground next To That "DeadHorse"....

12:33 PM  
Anonymous raider00 said...

Hey, if no one else will say it, I'll say it.

Jon Gruden was GREAT!!!!

Here's why I think so.

At 34 yrs of age, Gruden becomes HC of one of the most historic franchises in the NFL.

If that's not enough, his boss is a living legend.

In Grudens first season, he finds Jeff George, & Donald Hollis as his Qb's. 8 wins later, he has the Raiders on the march upward.

By his 3rd season, Gruden is coaching in the championship game.
The next year he is robbed blind in NE. The next year, he is raising the SB trophy(except for the wrong team).

All this, and Gruden hasn't even turned 40.

Anybody impressed yet ??

Bottomline, if there's a Raider fan alive who wouldn't welcome Gruden back to the Raiders sideline, that really is twisted.

Gruden did a GREAT job.

3:20 PM  
Blogger Raider Take said...

Raider00, now don't be too positive about our last period of sustained success. That's viewed as a negative by the Positive Police.

You must bellow about the greatness of the Raiders while suggesting that the Raiders haven't been great for more than a quarter of a century.

You must buy the notion that the Gruden era not only wasn't great, but was in fact directly RESPONSIBLE for our tailspin.

If you look fondly back at the last time we were good, you will be presented with all sorts of "evidence" that Gruden, Allen, Gannon and Brown are all mutinous losers not worthy of our fond remembrances.

Just remember: Stay positive.

3:59 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

Here's a simple scale that I believe is fair when grading a season. I'm sure some of you have different permutations than me.

Non-Playoff Season
0-4 Wins = atrocious
5-6 Wins = poor
7-9 Wins w/o playoff berth = avg.
=================================
Playoff Season
9+ Wins/playoff loss = good
10+ Wins/playoff win = very good
10+ Wins/AFCC berth = outstanding
10+ Wins/SB berth = nirvana

You might be wondering how is it "nirvana" to reach the SB and lose. IMO, even when the team fell short in SBII and SBXXXVII, the goal of creating an opportunity to play for the ultimate prize was met.

The past 26 seasons:

1984 11-5 - Good (loss w/c game)
1985 12-4 - Good (no playoff win)
1986 8-8 - Average
1987 5-10 - Poor
1988 7-9 - Average
1989 8-8 - Average
1990 12-4 - Outstanding(AFCC berth)
1991 9-7 - Good (loss w/c game)
1992 7-9 - Average
1993 10-6 - Very Good(won w/c game)
1994 9-7 - Average
1995 8-8 - Average
1996 7-9 - Average
1997 4-12 - Atrocious
1998 8-8 - Average
1999 8-8 - Average
2000 12-4 - Outstanding(AFCC berth)
2001 10-6 - Very Good (playoff win)
2002 11-5 - Nirvanna (SB berth)
2003 4-12 - Atrocious
2004 5-11 - Poor
2005 4-12 - Atrocious
2006 2-14 - Atrocious
2007 4-12 - Atrocious
2008 5-11 - Poor
2009 5-11 - Poor

By my scale, it shakes out this way:

(5) Atrocious seasons
(4) Poor seasons
(9) Average seasons
(3) Good seasons
(2) Very Good seasons
(2) Outstanding seasons
(1) Nirvana season

I'm interested in hearing how the RT crew grades a season.

7:04 PM  
Blogger PantyRaider said...

"CJ"...

That was pretty damn good so I agree...The record speaks for itself...

No consistency to get all in pumped-up about but at the same time not in total despair either...The last 7 were lousy to say the least but hopefully now we have put that behind and are about to add some more respectable grades to that list...

I would say overall were prolley in the middle of the pack as far as the NFL goes over that period listed...Maybe halt the teams below us and the other half with better records overall...

PantyRaider....Just A Guess!!!/_

Raider00...

I posted it was good with some bad mixed in but alluded to the fact that some of the credit for the good has to go to Willie Shaw as well....He was the architect of that "D" and Davis/Gruden gave him the power to bring in his own personnel and structure that "D" as he desired...

I also pointed to the fact that after Gruden left that team went out and performed at a much higher level across the board under a different "HC"...Until that "SB" anyway...It was a total team effort...The winning and the losing...

PantyRaider...Maybe Not Great But Substantially Better Than What Was Before!!!/_

8:09 PM  
Blogger Calico Jack said...

When looking at the Gruden era and comparing it to the last 25 years, one can only come to the following conclusions;

(1) It was a nice ride. Every year that Gruden was the head coach there was a feeling that winning was the priority.

(2) The team played competitive football.

(3) Credit should be given to Al Davis for hiring Gruden in the 1st place and seeing a diamond in the rough but most most importantly, working in partnership with Gruden and Allen to build a team that had a legit shot to win the SB in 2000, 2001, and 2002.

(4) Credit should be given to Willie Shaw, the entire coaching staff for maximizing the performance of the players on the field.

(5) Credit should be given to savvy, win thirst vets like Gannon, Brown, Garner, Rice, Kennedy, Parella, R. Woodson, C. Woodson, and Romo.

9:32 PM  

Post a Comment

<< Home