Comments on Raider Take: Time to Cut Ties with Kiffin?

Gary, more sweeping generalizations, mischaracteri...

2008-02-28T07:29:00.000-08:00

Gary, more sweeping generalizations, mischaracterizations, yawn...Guess it's all you've got at this point.

IF we'd won 3 or 4 more games last year, that would probably mean we didn't have one of the worst defenses in the NFL that never seemed to buck up at the right moment and secure the win, right?

Of course it makes a difference.

How many different ways can I admit something before you quit asking me to deny it? You're just running around like a beheaded chicken, shouting things.

Apocalyptic! Panic stricken! You're turning into the guy on the street corner wearing the sandwich board.

Yes, I guess I'm calling you names here. That's apparently the only type of discussion you want to have.

I and others have had very simple, easy-to-understand takes about the top issues of the day, such as whether or not we should have retained Ryan, and whether or not this perceived turmoil has been mishandled or not to the detriment of progress. It's not rocket science. It's blogging.

We would have probably dropped these topics by now if you didn't keep throwing bombs and cheap shots about them.

>>>>You and Blanda like to base your arguments on ...

2008-02-28T07:02:00.000-08:00

>>>>
You and Blanda like to base your arguments on the premise of "if" we hadn't racked up the worst five-year record in the past 30 years of the NFL.
>>>>

Is that worse than pretending none of the mistakes are being fixed based solely on last years w/l record (and a lack of insider information)?

I think not.

Once again... this discussion would not be happening if we had pulled out more of those close games this year. Funny how nobody even bothers to deny this.

7-9 or 8-8 in one year means all things are well. 4-12 is the apocalypse.

Yeah, Gary, you're right, and I've said it over an...

2008-02-27T22:06:00.000-08:00

Yeah, Gary, you're right, and I've said it over and over: the more losing, the less margin for error. It's common sense. So yes, I'm less tolerant of obvious blunders than I was two or three years ago. Why is that hard to understand? Why is that so scandalous?

You and Blanda like to base your arguments on the premise of "if" we hadn't racked up the worst five-year record in the past 30 years of the NFL.

Yes, and if Chernobyl hadn't melted down, it would be a nice little power plant.

Get real. We're dealing with the issues of the day here.

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&...

2008-02-27T22:00:00.000-08:00

http://profootballexperts.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&nid=83&lnid=83&yr=2008

Up-dated list of available FA....

Speculation....I repeat this is only "Speculation"...

2008-02-27T21:37:00.000-08:00

Speculation....I repeat this is only "Speculation"....

But could it be....

I sent e-mails to the Raiders Booster Clubs and to the Home office asking for some sort of clarification whether or not we still have a "HC"

and what happens....

The International House-o-Pancakes...I mean...the International Headquarters of the Raiders Organization makes a call to a "Mediot" who writes "Crap" and when she answers the phone guess who is talking to her...and in ridiculous riddles no doubt....like they are really playing with the "Mediot"s little minds....

So...Could it be that the call was in response to my request for some "Sign" that we still have a "HC"....He was at the facility...working I suppose...NOT packing his bags to leave in the morning...

PantyRaider....KiffinLives!!!!!

QB David Carr was released today....do you want him...

>>>> memdf said... Doom and gloom - How's this?...

2008-02-27T21:36:00.000-08:00

>>>>
memdf said...

Doom and gloom - How's this?

They draft McD, clearly an AD pick and Mendenhall tears up the league.
>>>>

Ironically, thats what most of the Al-haters want... picking McD.

Go figure????

[shrug]

>>>>RT: We're talking about the news of the day he...

2008-02-27T21:33:00.000-08:00

>>>>
RT: We're talking about the news of the day here, because this is a daily blog, not the "we won a lot of games in 2002" blog or the "Rob Ryan MIGHT blitz someday" blog.
>>>>

I get it.

So I guess I should suddenly just discount all your ceaseless whining about how many games we have lost in the last five years as complete rubbish and focus on whats happening today?

Works for me.

Are you "all in" on it to?

>>>Have you seen anyone go on the record as saying...

2008-02-27T21:25:00.000-08:00

>>>
Have you seen anyone go on the record as saying they won't take Davis' phone calls? Name one. Crickets. The only one I know of who remotely approaches that is Randy Moss. Randy claims that the Raiders "mistreated" him. You really want front Randy as the expert?
>>>

The entire farce of this all is that it's pretty well known that Al is a "players owner". He's got 40+ years of history behind him as treating his players like royalty.

The IAAFers are desperately trying to spin this as the apocalypse because that is what they are staking their reputation on.

In the end... with 20 million dollars of cap dollars to spend... Al will again sign lots of top-notch FA's, Kiffin/Al will do another outstanding job of drafting, and the IAAFers will suddenly pretend none of their moronic assertions were ever made.

Bank on it.

>>>>What I'm seeing here is that you and Gary are ...

2008-02-27T21:19:00.000-08:00

>>>>
What I'm seeing here is that you and Gary are getting really angry about me having what I consider reasonable, independent opinions about very specific issues. On a blog, no less.
>>>>

Actually I get angry when you pretend you make reasonable arguments when all you are doing is getting pissed because the Raiders aren't giving you enough information (when they have NEVER given any information) and not winning enough games for you.

Thats it. Thats the list. This discussion would not be happening if the Raiders were 7-9, or 8-8 last year.

Tell me I am wrong.

>>>>Outside of the San FRan or LA area, there are ...

2008-02-27T21:13:00.000-08:00

>>>>
Outside of the San FRan or LA area, there are no little kids pulling for the Raiders, learning to love them like we did.
>>>>

Lol... whaddafuckever. I've seen people throw fairy dust around before but cmon.

My ex-GF's daughter emailed me out of the blue after years to tell me she was going to a "Raider-101" camp this year in Oakland... I didn't even know she followed football.

I'm from South Dakota. She told me she started liking them because I did.

The Raider Nation will be as strong as ever.

You guys are frigging grasping at straws.

>>>>Blanda: No impressions from Kiffin whatever? ...

2008-02-27T21:06:00.000-08:00

>>>>
Blanda: No impressions from Kiffin whatever? Only that Kiffin seemed to be having a good time in his off hours. Curious.
>>>>

Was he wearing Raider gear? Did he have a Raider playbook in hand at the bar? Did the girls he was dancing with wear any black and silver?

This is becoming Raider paparazzi!!

>>>>NY Raider: What profit enterprise can survive ...

2008-02-27T20:55:00.000-08:00

>>>>
NY Raider: What profit enterprise can survive without public relations? It’s not like the Raiders have put a product on the field that sells itself (they're not selling gasoline). Has arrogance completely taken over, for better or worse?
>>>>

If it isn't apparent to everyone by now... the Raiders have some of the most loyal fans in all of sports.

80% of the people here seem to HATE the Raiders organization because they haven't delivered enough wins for them lately, and yet come here and other places to whine (cough) discuss the Raiders nearly every day during the off season. The Raiders merchandise sales is near the top every year, and was still number one after losing 10 of 12 games in 2004.

http://tinyurl.com/2r85n6

The Raiders are one of the most popular sports franchises in the world... is this really a surprise to anyone here?

And you think Al needs a lesson in PR? Okee dokee!!

A very interesting discussion.So "Captain Strident...

2008-02-27T20:27:00.000-08:00

A very interesting discussion.

So "Captain Strident" doesn't write me up a ticket for getting off topic (J/K RT!), here is my view on the 3 central topics:

The topics are (1) whether or not we think it's a mistake to have retained Ryan, considering the state of our defense;

Yes it was a mistake to retain Ryan based on the performance of the D and other underlying factors.

Kiffin came in and hired, what, 13 new offensive coaches. The offense made considerable strides. The D returned all 11 starters from the 2006 campaign and lays an egg. Since typically a Head Coach has the authority to hire his own staff, I would have liked to have seen a new DC that Kiffin hand selected come in and shake things up.

For the record, and in my opinion only, Kiffin wanted to release Ryan and hire the hotshot DB Coach from Tampa to be his new DC.

(2) whether or not the destructive rumor mill has been mishandled by the organization (which is different than whether or not it's fair that this media rumor mill exists in the first place, and which has nothing to do with 40 years ago or IF we hadn't gone 19-61, because we did go 19-61);

Yes, the destructive rumor mill was poorly handled. It should have been decisively squashed in the simplest and most direct fashion; Al Davis goes on the record and says the following:

"The rumors about Lane Kiffin not coming back as our Head Coach in 2008 are categorically false. I support Lane's efforts to return the Raiders to greatness."

Done. Move along folks. Nothing to see here.

Use this quick declarative statement as an opportunity to reinvigorate the Raider Nation and put a lot of loyal fan's minds at ease.

(3) whether or not these two big issues of the day are impediments to or acts of progress.

The above 2 blunders are impediments to progress but for different reasons.

Blunder #1 (retaining Ryan) will be difficult to gauge until (a) we know what new additions in personnel are brought on board via Free Agency & the Draft (b) we see if there are any changes in scheme/defensive philosophy (c) the real games commence and performance is reviewed. In my view, this blunder is correctable and a "work in progress"

Blunder #2 is the bigger blunder and is frankly inexcusable. This blunder can be far more damaging in the short and long term.

First and foremost, having your HC twist in the wind and viewed as a "lame duck" HC shows a lack of leadership, foresight, class, and business acumen.

The trickle down affect of not stopping this rumor dead in its tracks impacts some rather important elements to a successful franchise. Such as:

(1) Public Relations
(2) Good business practices
(3) Media Relations
(4) Marketing
(5) Player Relations
(6) Fan Relations
(7) Ability to recruit FAs and future Raider coaches

2 other quick points:

The rumor going around the combine is that Jim Mora Jr. is lining up Knapp, Cable, and Rathman to join his staff in 2009 when he becomes the HC for the SeaChickens. All 3 coaches have a relationship with Mora (Atlanta, SF) and 2 year contracts with the Raiders.

To my old chum, BlandaRocked:

I am awaiting your blog entry with bated breath. From your hints, it sounds like a real page turner! Please do us all a favor and hold nothing back. We want the unfiltered BR ... no cream or sugar!

Bama7NY you nailed it about not growing the fan ba...

2008-02-27T19:19:00.000-08:00

Bama7
NY you nailed it about not growing the fan base anymore. Outside of the San FRan or LA area, there are no little kids pulling for the Raiders, learning to love them like we did. Ask an eleven year old about the Raiders and he'd say we suck. We don't even try to get new followers. Al is not doing anythimg well anymore... poor scouting, poor personnel evaluations, poor strategy, shoddy management, poor PR ... failing all the way around.
Hey I see my homeboy from Georgia MArcus Howard is the fastest DE at the combine. Well, damn... we might pick up someone I like! Marcus is going to take his one man Hawaii massacre and a great forty time and actually get drafted.

LOL! Can we get Kiff's wife to question his relati...

2008-02-27T18:51:00.000-08:00

LOL! Can we get Kiff's wife to question his relationship with Al Davis?

Thank you, PantyRaider. Go to the link folks, and...

2008-02-27T18:37:00.000-08:00

Thank you, PantyRaider.

Go to the link folks, and read it to the very end. It's quite comical and very weird.

http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/buzz/2008/02/27/kif...

2008-02-27T18:00:00.000-08:00

http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/buzz/2008
/02/27/kiffin-denies-dancing-avoids
-tap-dance-with-al/

Please read this and tell me that Kiffin is in hot water with the freaken Raiders....

What a Joke....and everyone's up-set...

PantyRaider...Just-Laughin-Baby!!!!

How did the rumor get started that SOB was fired.....

2008-02-27T17:48:00.000-08:00

How did the rumor get started that SOB was fired...

You need to remember back to the end of the season and the speculation that Kiffin's dad would be free from TB...which he was not....but he had come out and said he did not want the "Job"....but there was no indication that the "Job" was ever offered...it was all just speculation and wishful thinking...so he re-signed with TB but the rumors were already started and no one came out in denial so it spred like a "WildFire" in a wheat field...Than other speculations were added to it and on and on it grew...

So now everyone is running around like a bunch of "HeadlessChickens" trying to get the goods on the Raiders or crying "Abandon Ship" the crew is dysfunctional...

I personally think there are alot of dysfuntional fans this off season who are on the virge of just giving up...So now would be a good time to remember back to what was preached last year....

"We are not just re-loading as in the past...we are re-building the franchise"...

Now we find out that re-building is a painful experiance that Raider Fans are not used to...but all the other teams in the freakin NFL have had to go threw it and they still have fans in the end...the question that some of you need to answer is....

"Will We"...

PantyRaider...For-da-LongHall!!!!

nyraider, to some degree it does benefit them to b...

2008-02-27T17:00:00.000-08:00

nyraider, to some degree it does benefit them to be covert. Virtually every team hangs on to that to a certain extent. The Raiders are clearly among the most secretive.

And in most instances I'd say that Calico's words are well taken. And you are correct that the winning over many decades has led to a certain amount of arrogance. But the fact is that a football team doesn't really need a PR department if they are consistently winning. Winning is it's own reward. And I fully expect that the way Al currently views the situation is that he'll answer the current skeptics by winning again.

Addressing that "arrogance," what causes it, and how the team should proceed will be part of what I say this weekend.

memdf, I think I know what you're asking, so corre...

2008-02-27T16:52:00.000-08:00

memdf, I think I know what you're asking, so correct me if I don't address your question.

It seems to me that what you're asking depends on a fact that I never believed existed in the first place. And that is that Al Davis controls everything (from the way practices are run, to the draft). At least since the end of the Flores era, Davis has not involved himself to that degree. Coaches have been free to run practices and schemes according to their own wishes. In fact, Davis has hardly been seen at a practice in years. And when he does show up it's usually just to talk shop with the players and coaches, not to coach or deliver instructions.

That's part of what I'll talk about over the weekend. I think some may be surprised by what I have to say.

This whole thing is like a Twilight Zone episode. ...

2008-02-27T16:45:00.000-08:00

This whole thing is like a Twilight Zone episode. We’re all trapped in some parallel universe where the Raiders are a benevolent organization, and Raider Image is an oxymoron.

What profit enterprise can survive without public relations? It’s not like the Raiders have put a product on the field that sells itself (they're not selling gasoline). Has arrogance completely taken over, for better or worse?

Calico Jack made an excellent point. He stated, “This (lack of communication) has harmed our ability to grow our fan base. Besides playing crappy football for the past 5 years, don't you think young fans who are on the fence might pause before dedicating themselves to the Raiders?”

Absolutely!

Does it make sense to anyone that the Raiders entire off-season be a covert operation, despite a loyal fan base that’s starving for some sign that a pulse exists? Who does Al Davis think he is, Willy Wonka?

Blanda-I don't know if the Shell situation compari...

2008-02-27T16:38:00.000-08:00

Blanda-

I don't know if the Shell situation comparison is a valid one. The place was a mess, we knew it and the press certainly knew it also. 10 sacks in the first game, B&B OC, 3 hour practices...

If AD has always run things his way, why did this communication or perceived internal conflict not manifest itself when chuckie and (defacto gm) allen were around?

Added:I believe that when Schefter reported that t...

2008-02-27T15:46:00.000-08:00

Added:

I believe that when Schefter reported that the decision had been made to fire Shell, no such decision had been made. I believe that it was certainly being discussed, but the decision had not yet been made.

The report was filed after it became clear that Shell's internal squabbles were with Lombardi. I feel that the report was filed for Lombardi's aggrandizement, since Schefter is tight with Lombardi. The purpose of that report was not so much to belittle Al Davis as it was to tell the world that Lombardi was vindicated in not wanting Shell to be hired.

I'm not certain what the motive for all of this recent crap is. It could be as senseless as assuring the fans the team will leave town right after it moved back, or it could be vindictive on Schefter's part because Al called him a liar.

Take, all fair questions. It's not that I don't s...

2008-02-27T15:30:00.000-08:00

Take, all fair questions. It's not that I don't see your argument. In fact, it's very reasonable. However, I feel that such has really always been true. Crap has always been dished on this scale. The point I was making earlier is that if we weren't 19-61 over the last five years, folks here would be looking at it the same way they always have. People don't pay any attention to the crap if the team is winning. And if top-tier players don't want to play for the Raiders, I'd suggest that 19-61 has more to do with it for a player who wants to end his career in a Super Bowl.

That said, consider the result if Davis answered the BS. The Raiders did that with Shell, only to be told they were lying - and if they didn't fire Shell it would be only because Davis wanted to prove Schefter wrong. The best that Davis can hope for in debunking this story is to debunk it on the field. (And this does have something to do with what I'll write over the weekend.)

If there is truth to the story (IF), consider Davis' problem if, after 19-61 and telling the world that he was going to fix the problem, he went before the public without a functional solution in place. I guarantee you under those conditions the press would say far worse things. So, if this does exist, and so far I don't believe that it does (for many reasons), we are not going to hear from Davis regarding anything but the solution. He will not tell us that he has a problem that he doesn't know how to fix.

You identify this as the biggest rumor to ever infect the team. That's my point from earlier as well. It's not. Certainly constantly telling fans the team was going to move back to LA, even relating "inside sources" with reporting that teams had been sent to LA to discuss the move, had a much harder impact on selling the team than who their head coach was going to be.

And to be clear, Jones and McDonald have each related only one "inside source." Jones' provided some reasonable information that didn't agree with what was being reported. McDonald's "source" gave us a whole new fantasy on the situation.

Also, there are always lower-tier employees who are going to relay BS to see if what they say gets reported in the paper. It depends on the reporter to vet the source, and that's something reporters now days refuse to do. It's just too much work.

So from the local press, I've seen two inside sources with opposite things to say - which means only one of them is lying. From the national media, all the sources are "someone familiar with the Raiders," or something along those lines. That identification could be Lombardi for all we know. And it likely is.

Yes, Blanda, but on this matter, we are like two s...

2008-02-27T14:53:00.000-08:00

Yes, Blanda, but on this matter, we are like two ships passing in the night.

Let me clarify: I've never said these team sources might not be lying. What bothers me is the fact that these sources are either lying or not. Big distinction. If they're lying, it's bad. If they're not, it's bad.

Who are these sources, and why are they spreading lies, if that's what they are? Regardless if they're a waterboy or a CFO, it's harmful and divisive.

Companies and oganizations that are disciplined, healthy, unified, organized and functional do not have employees persistently running around undermining their employers.

The Raiders may not have had a progressive approach to media relations for the past 40 years, but since when do they allow so many rats on the ship, or foster an environment in which the rats multiply?

Shell v. Lombardi is the most public example of this, but it's still rampant on the "unnamed" front. I don't remember this being the Raider Way. It's a sign of dysfunction. Why should we excuse it? Why shouldn't we expect the house to be in order?