Comments on Raider Take: Stop The Timidity

I remember when Al Davis used to tell the players ...

2009-07-24T19:12:16.761-07:00

I remember when Al Davis used to tell the players not to worry about roughing up the other team that he would pay the fines. they have to start going out there on game day and beat the snott out of whoever is in front of them. the hell with the fines. Al will pay them just kick some ass and then we will get back to a winning tradition like before. IT'S TIME.

Thanks BR for pointing out the 50th season Raiders...

2009-07-16T19:59:48.624-07:00

Thanks BR for pointing out the 50th season Raiders site. GREAT photo gallery. Wow! Some of those pictures from the 60's and 70's are classic.

I also agree with your point about there being an added awareness to the Raiders history and tradition with the dawning of the 50th anniversary.

I got so jacked up that I ordered a custom authentic Asomugha with the 50th Anniversary patch. Priceless!

An owner/GM "uninvolved" for 6 seasons? Yup. Tha...

2009-07-16T19:48:12.715-07:00

An owner/GM "uninvolved" for 6 seasons? Yup. That explains everything! OK ... we're good. Carry on.

I hope with all my heart and my silver and black b...

2009-07-16T19:46:22.225-07:00

I hope with all my heart and my silver and black blood coursing through my veins that Cable is a fascimile of Madden/Flores. BUT

Please let's stop with the comparisons until Cable wins at a better clip than .333.

I like Cable. He seems to be an ideal fit for our organization. I admire his passion and motivational abilities, and can do spirit. However, let's face it. Cable has a VERY huge mountain to climb before he mentioned in the same breath of Madden/Flores.

BR: No doubt ... Davis does give autonomy to Head ...

2009-07-16T19:39:45.890-07:00

BR: No doubt ... Davis does give autonomy to Head Coaches, especially in their first year. When each and every season is completed, Davis evaluates the performance of each coach. It is at this critical juncture that each coach should be retained or released based on their merit. Davis might consider (key word consider) the recommendation of his HC but it is laughable to think that just because a HC wants to retain a staff member in spite of piss poor results that Davis wouldn't simply over rule the recommendaton and do what is in the best interest of the club.

Agreed H. The front 4's ability to exert QB pre...

2009-07-16T19:35:35.125-07:00

Agreed H.

The front 4's ability to exert QB pressure makes a blitzer's job that much easier. It is simple math. If the OLine is concentrating on pass blocking the front 4, it frees up the blitzer to have a clear path to the QB. If the pass protection commits to the blitzer it gives 1 of the 4 DLineman an opportunity to be singled up and a much better chance to get to the QB.

BR: Let's get 1 thing straight, amigo. Al Dav...

2009-07-16T19:31:41.590-07:00

BR:

Let's get 1 thing straight, amigo.

Al Davis owns the Raiders. It is his team to do as he sees fit.

If he wants to shitcan a DC or the water boy for poor performance, nothing should or will stop him.

To continue to act like he wouldn't fire SOB because a head coach wanted SOB to be retained is completely disingenous on every possible level. It defies all logic.

Coaches, players, and colleagues make recommendations to Davis on a regular basis. No one discounts this fact. However, at the end of the day, it is Davis who makes the decisions of consequence.

Bama7 Raider Realist: In my opinion the back and f...

2009-07-16T17:44:52.129-07:00

Bama7
Raider Realist: In my opinion the back and forth is incited by Blanda. Blanda trys to take every Raider debacle and explain it in a way that totally removes Al from any blame, which is impossible. He is our owner and GM.
Blanda, the more you are presented with facts the harder it becomes to make the puzzle pieces of your argument fit -- Like the assessment above that SOB was responsible for moving Irons and Brayton (two Al favorites) to OLB. If what you say (it was an SOB decision) is true, then why wouldn't Al have let Kiffin name his own DC when Kiffin tried?
And if SOB was calling all of the DC shots then how come Al took credit in '06 after the Shell/Walsh debacle... the infamous "you saw that defense didn't you," when asked what part he contributed to the '06 season?
It just doesn't add up, as RT has explained very well.

Realist - Regarding the recent tone, I would say...

2009-07-16T17:02:30.925-07:00

Realist -

Regarding the recent tone, I would say, as unfortunate as it is, the rich history and tradition of the Raiders that many of us grew up with and became fanatical about was badly bruised by the last six years, which culminated into a changing of priorities with the Kiffin Fiasco (at which point it was almost left for dead).

I think many of us (no, all of us) share a desperation to get back that tradition. It’s just really difficult to tell if all the lights are on in Alameda and all the right people have their collective eye on the ball.

13 days, huh?

This is fantastic! http://www. raiders50thseason....

2009-07-16T16:48:13.677-07:00

This is fantastic!

http://www.
raiders50thseason.com/videos/

If you guys want to see film of the football life H, Panty and I enjoyed since the '60s, this will give you a taste. Except it was month after month, in Fall after Fall, year after year.

H, this topic also highlights way Denny Green will...

2009-07-16T15:39:04.443-07:00

H, this topic also highlights way Denny Green will never be a Raiders HC. While Green has been interviewed by Davis, and both men respect each other greatly, Davis believes in hanging on to coaching staffs to preserve traditions, and Green has stated that ideally he likes assistants who he can replace every year - because they are good enough to be recruited by other teams. If they are not recruited by other teams, he thinks that's a good reason to release them and find somebody else.

I can see virtue in both philosophies. So can both men who own them, otherwise Green would have been a Raiders HC by now.

H, I remember when I was in high school, I pretty ...

2009-07-16T15:23:17.041-07:00

H, I remember when I was in high school, I pretty much knew who the coaches were in our division and the ones who were the most famous around the league. But if you were to ask me, then, who the coach of the Lions or Bengals was, I'd have had to look it up. Also, in those days, coaches stayed with teams a lot longer - just like the players.

Today the coaches are more like the players. They have their own websites and involve themselves in activities to keep there faces public. Reputation is everything, and coaches are very protective of it. I think this is a change that Al has not fully comprehended, and is part of the reason for his seeming inability to find a suitable HC. He fails to see the perception/connection between him and coaches who work with him. He doesn't see how coaches might alter the way they work to preserve an image they feel suits them.

Going back to current events, I think it quite lik...

2009-07-16T15:13:16.384-07:00

Going back to current events, I think it quite likely that the issue of GM is still very much on the table.

There is likely a larger reason for the return to traditional Raider philosophies than a recommittment from Al Davis.

This is the 50th anniversary of the team. Swarming across Alemeda are the old guard players and coaches preparing for a year of celebration. They have no trouble, so far, stepping up to microphones to remind the team of its history and Commitment to Excellence. There are likely far more go-betweens between Al Davis and Tom Cable than there will ever be again in the future. And Al Davis just had his 80th birthday.

Al Davis seems very much aware that he needs help at this point in his life, and he has admitted as much. He has also said that his son isn't ready.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is a new face in the Raider organization between now and this time next year (other than a new HC, thank God).

RaiderReaiist, See my post of 4:13 on previous pa...

2009-07-16T15:11:55.665-07:00

RaiderReaiist,

See my post of 4:13 on previous page. Along with running with scissors and abusing tableware we are beating dead horses.

You can beat him all you want but he's not going to get up and walk unless you have one of those magic ball bearings from Starman (good movie by the way).

Blanda,

For about 10 or more years I used to write to the Raider front office and get a media guide. I knew all the assistant coaches and had all the players numbers memorized. Made it more enjoyable watching. So, some of us knew who the coaches were. I still have some stashed away in the attic somewhere.

They eventually stopped giving them out for free. Which I totally understand they weren't cheap to print.

By the way, watch out for the Tableware Police.

H

Good point, Realist. I will try to behave. Contr...

2009-07-16T15:05:42.597-07:00

Good point, Realist. I will try to behave.

Contrary to Blanda's assertion that I paint "any disagreement" as running with scissors, I do not.

In fact, just a day or so ago, I listed several topical points of disagreement, with what I considered scissors takes and non-scissors takes. The latter I did not agree with, but I could accept.

I do believe that this place is defined by a certain intellectual rigor. Everyone here is very knowledgeable and articulate, and no error in fact or logic goes unpunished. No one, including myself, is exempt. I believe that this keeps the level of dialogue quite high.

Lately, I've just seen some stuff that truly asks me to suspend disbelief. It's hard not to react.

But I see what you are saying, at some point, this rigor can backfire, at which point we're just one of many sites in the braying fray of bickering and repetition.

I will try to behave more in accordance with my own stated standards.

Thank you,
Dr. Evil

nyraider: I'd also point out that when those init...

2009-07-16T14:33:57.433-07:00

nyraider:

I'd also point out that when those initial reports started coming out without any verification, I was one of the ones suggesting that they should not be believed without verification.

I have no trouble accepting facts once those facts have been established. Stated facts without any verification I usually have trouble with.

nyraider: Everything I've stated as fact in the p...

2009-07-16T14:28:58.084-07:00

nyraider:

Everything I've stated as fact in the post above has been widely reported and coroborated by the parties involved. Kiffin has not denied attempting to bring in his father, and he did bring his father with him to Tennessee.

Instead of relying on cute phrases like running with scissors or bending spoons, why don't you show me where I'm not being accurate.

You're Davis? Fire them both, please! Be careful...

2009-07-16T14:23:43.785-07:00

You're Davis? Fire them both, please!

Be careful what you pawn off as "fact". I can't say for sure, but I believe this is where "spoon bending" and "running with scissors" starts to come into play.

RaiderRealist, I guess you're right, but I'd like ...

2009-07-16T13:14:00.860-07:00

RaiderRealist, I guess you're right, but I'd like a little room to state a logical position without be accused of "running with scissors" or "bending spoons." A difference of opinion should be just a difference of opinion.

nyraider:

EVERY owner or GM hires, and the fires the DC. But it is the HC that makes the request.

Facts on the ground: Kiffin didn't say he wanted Ryan to be fired. Ryan suggested to Kiffin that if Kiffin wasn't happy with what he was doing, he would resign. Kiffin told Ryan that would be fine, specifically avoiding discussing the situation with Al Davis personally. We don't know exactly at what point Kiffin asked Davis to bring in his father, but we know that it happened.

Now, along with whaterver other problems I'm having with Kiffin, if I'm Al Davis, on one hand I have Ryan coming into my office telling me that he's offered to resign and Kiffin sent him in to do it, and on the other hand I've got Kiffin asking me to contract tamper and bring in his father. Where, exactly, should be the focus of my problem when the offense has shown no real improvement, but Ryan produced a top 10 defense the season before?

Blanda - If Davis is the guy that hires the DCs,...

2009-07-16T12:50:26.627-07:00

Blanda -

If Davis is the guy that hires the DCs, it would stand to reason that he would be the one to fire them.

We know the head coach doesn’t have that authority, because Ryan was let go by his HC, then retained by Davis. And don’t give me some BS about tampering. Kiffin did not want to work with Ryan anymore, regardless of his replacement... that much became obvious.

Davis wanted Kiffin out, but kept Ryan to spite Kiffin, then kept Kiffin too because, well, to punish him.

Hey Blanda,RT, a little food for thought: "In th...

2009-07-16T12:48:58.102-07:00

Hey Blanda,RT, a little food for thought:

"In those forty years I’ve come to understand a few things. It is not that Al Davis exists because of the Raiders, the Raiders exist because of Al Davis. I’ve come to understand, also, that I have more great football memories that any one football fan is entitled to. Al Davis is the man most responsible for those memories, and that buys more loyalty from me than a 19-61 run can take away. As far as I’m concerned, Al Davis has earned the right to do anything with his team that he wants. It is his, more than it belongs to the Raider Nation. He has done me the honor of renting, or lending the team to me on lazy autumn Sundays for forty years. I am obligated to return it when I’m finished with it."

That's from Blanda's blog circa March 1, 2008.

RT, do you really think you can change Blanda's mind when he state's his position with regard to the Raiders that succinctly?

Blanda, RT has stated his position with regard to the Raiders this season:

"I'm no less of a Raiders fan this year, but I'll be damned if I'm going to write them a check for $1,200 for me and Cousin of Raider Take. My trust needs to be earned back before I write them a big check again." RT, circa June 21, 2009.

If both of you have clearly stated your positions, why do you feel the need to go back and forth arguing when neither of you will give ground?

We used to talk about the current events of Raider football around here. We didn't always agree, but we didn't go around and around for 200 posts arguing. Training camp starts in 13 days. I'm not asking for 13 days of singing Kumbaya, but can we refrain from the non-stop hammer-to-anvil grudge match for just 24 hours? If we can do that for 24 hours, who knows, maybe we can go for 48 hours without the racket. Balls in your court, gentlemen.

Onto something else, I believe these words will ma...

2009-07-16T12:42:30.363-07:00

Onto something else, I believe these words will mark the difference between Cable and every HC we've had since Shell I.

"I told him that I wouldn't do it without his help."

This is what Cable told Davis when he interviewed for the HC job.

Cable has been a Raider fan his whole life. His dream job was to become the HC of the Raiders. Having spent a lifetime watching the team, he understands how they have historically done things. He understands their traditions. He understands that Davis' involvement is crucial, and his statement that "I know what's wrong, and I know how to fix it," works hand in hand with "I won't do it without your help."

For those watching, there should be no question that Davis has involved himself more this off season than in off seasons past. It should also be clear to long time fans that the Raiders seem to opperating more in the traditions of the 70s and 80s (in terms of organization) than any time since returning to Oakland. Of course you'd have to have been a fan before 1995 to know that.

The thing that is different about being a head coach these days is that you are as recognizable as the players, if not more so. In earlier days, nobody even knew who the head coaches of teams they didn't follow were, unless they were people like Don Shula or Vince Lombardi.

With the invention of the internet and the 24/7 news cycle, coaches are well known and feel that they have reputations and images to protect. While a coach may want to be the HC of the Raiders, they don't want to appear to be dominated by someone who is ridiculed. By extension of this theory, Shanahan, Gruden, Callahan, Turner, Shell II, and Kiffin all wanted distance from the ridicule of Al Davis. They did not want to appear dominated by him, so they avoided involving him as much as possible. Cable is inflicted with no such ego.

Now, this will no doubt brand Cable among the media as Al Davis' "yes" man. Cable will be successful, but the media will be reluctant to give him credit because he's Al Davis' yes man. Just like Madden and Flores. But Cable doesn't seem to care.

I expect that Cable will be a lot more like Madden/Flores than like Callahan or Turner. I'm willing to wait and see if I'm right.

Well, now we finally know why we have joined the N...

2009-07-16T12:37:59.603-07:00

Well, now we finally know why we have joined the NFL's bottom feeders in historic fashion, courtesy of Blanda.

The owner became too uninvolved while still refusing to hire an experienced, competent GM.

That is an obvious recipe for disaster, and disaster is what we got. So there may be some merit in that theory.

That would certainly explain a lot(except for the part that Mr. Davis isn't the one who is MOST responsible for what's transpired; this will require some additional spoon bending (oops, sorry)).

Signed, Dr. Evil (takeover plan to be announced soon)

"BR"... With Davis it's a "Damned if you do -n- d...

2009-07-16T11:52:13.534-07:00

"BR"...

With Davis it's a "Damned if you do -n- damned if you don't" world...

If he fires a "DC" he was too much hands-on instead of letting his appointed "HC" run his team and if that "DC" ex cells elsewhere we never hear the end of it....

When he fails to fire the bum he's lazy and inattentive to the problems and his responsibilities as "MGP"....

As far as the players lost that also relates to the players undeveloped....

You can add to the list "CB"s Buchanan -n- Woodson who were traded during "SOB"s tenure...That's why I posted we may never know the full extent of the damage that has been done....

Another point is that it appears as though he was a divider of the team between the "O" -n- "D" and I have speculated an instigator of problems for the "HC"s as he was in consideration for that job also....I think he instigated problems threw the players but have no statements to back it up....Just a gut-feeling based upon what I have seen and heard....

PantyRaider....Good Reddens!!!/_

Careful with all those caps Blanda. Luckily I for...

2009-07-16T11:50:00.168-07:00

Careful with all those caps Blanda. Luckily I forgot to put in my hearing aids this morning.

H